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Old 12-20-2016, 04:57 PM   #51 (permalink)
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You basically reconstructed the first step of the Smokey Hot Vapor Engine.

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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
If the gasoline fully vaporizes at 250°F why not heat the air up to around 250°F.
On my old carburetored camaro the carb would be at about 200°F and the air would be around 160°F to 180°F with a stock intake manifold and air filter drawing air from under the hood.
Didn't really see any improvement in fuel economy until I leaned out the cruise mixture.
He then added a turbocharger to compress the over expanded gasses to gain usable power and achieve 50+ mpg. However, you have to compare that to the base vehicle which could achieve 39 mpg on the freeway. It is less startling when viewed that way.

The 78 Dodge van I worked with had a 360 V8 and a Carter Thermoquad spread bore that would tip the secondaries too early for our use . We replaced it with a Holley spread bore and tuned it so that the secondaries came on only at wide open throttle settings. Then the primaries were leaned past the 18:1 AFR factory settings to about 20:1 AFR. The engine started to run ragged. By using a Briggs & Stratton single throat carb whose intake tube passed over the hot drivers side headers, we introduced a hot gasoline vapor mix underneath the main Holley in a replacement phenolic spacer with passages machined into it. This allowed the primary carb throttle to be closed for the most part and the engine could run nicely at 20:1 AFR. We did not have wide-band O2 sensors available to us back in 1979 so we used the factory procedure of propane addition referenced to a chart. The hot air snorkel intake that was controlled by a bi-metal thermal switch was replaced by a simple cable actuator that ran to the dash. The hot air basically ran all the time. It worked well in most cases except it reduced over all power when the secondaries kicked in and you wanted cold air.

In this configuration, the vehicle could haul a bunch of people and luggage with fuel economy hovering around 19-20 mpg on the flat at 55 mph ( national speed limit in those days). The addition of an Edelbrock Digital Water Injection kit impacting on a hot slug of zinc plugging the EGR crossover passage and providing a bit of hydrogen, allowed us to tune the primaries a bit leaner and our mileage topped out at 21 mpg.

The only thing remarkable about the whole exercise was the fact that this was a 15 seater van full of teenage campers and with luggage packed on top. The 55 mph speed limit and 80 psi truck tires had a lot to do with it, but we like to think the engine mods helped too.

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Old 12-20-2016, 05:11 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Last edited by racprops; 02-17-2017 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:25 PM   #53 (permalink)
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The impression I got from you was for a testing platform.

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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
Any loophole you think you might have will be closed if any sizable portion of the population suddenly was using it in their daily commute. Elio better go with car standards if they are smart rather then having to re-engineer the thing again when the DOT reclassifies it a car.

Not directed at RustyLugNut, but that Scientific American article quoted was I believe from the early 50's. So if you have a flathead Ford, a vapor carb might be the ticket... that or a modern MPI sysyem.
The fact that the United States emissions requirements are in grams per mile allows a somewhat "dirty" engine to pass emissions if the fuel efficiency was high enough. In working with Jack McCornack, while he was still aiming for the Auto Xprize, he calculated his re-booted Lotus could pass Tier II emissions if he could get around 115 mpg. This, even before any implementation of after treatment technology.

As far as a production vehicle, ICEs (internal combustion engines) will become more specialized and will benefit from the hybridization craze going on right now. The Chevy Bolt/Volt could use a much more advanced range extender instead of a warmed over production engine. Achates is a company just up the road from my family's condo, and it has made advances to the classic opposed piston engine. It is working with Cummins Inc. as well as the military for various applications. It would be ideal to have a 2 cylinder ( 4 piston ) engine optimized to run at a single speed, powering a hybrid as a range extending engine.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:35 PM   #54 (permalink)
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The van had the common 727 auto transmission.

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Originally Posted by racprops View Post
Rustylugnut at lease you have done the walk as well as the talk.

What was your RPMs at 55 and I bet there was no over drive gear either...

My old 74 Chevy van (LWB) witha 350 and TH400 would get 12 /14 on good days at 60MPH back then with only a slightly leaned QJet carb...and that sucker was running at 3000 PPMs at that speed.
The rear end was a large Spicer unit with 5 point something ratio so we changed the loosey goosey torque converter to an "economy converter" sold by an outfit out of Los Angeles. It brought the RPMs down to about 2000 at 55. I don't think we could get it lower as power on the primaries was at the limit of usable. Mountain passes were run with the hot air valve closed and the secondaries doing most of the work.

Last edited by RustyLugNut; 12-20-2016 at 05:36 PM.. Reason: Spelling.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:48 PM   #55 (permalink)
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A gasoline vapour system, would it not get similar mpg as a propane as long as the btu is adjusted? Propane gas I'd perfectly vapourized as is the object of a gasoline vapour. Unless of course you can make more gasoline vapour from liquid. Steam is water expanded 1700 times
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:31 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:33 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:35 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:39 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Sadly I think your right and they DID outlaw Bio Diesel here in AZ...even the school buses that were running it had to stop.

I was once very interested in the Brooke Engine...
Really.

Arizona Biodiesel & Alternative Fuel Locations

Really.

https://www3.epa.gov/region9/waste/b...l/arizona.html

You might try dealing in facts once. Hell, you might like it.
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:46 PM   #60 (permalink)
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