Looking for help building a Gas Vapor system

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by racprops

Yes with the stock cam you were near the "lugging RPM/load...limits"

I had a TH400 with the switch pitch convertor which could have been great as it was tight, almost lockup tight in low but for all the power losses within the TH400. I did not have the knowledge nor the funding to change the rear end and re-calibrate the speedo...

They sent us an SP2P manifold with the correct emissions crossover and the long runners to help low end torque. They also urged us to use their matching "Economy Cam" which would help low end power even more. However, the down time was too long for a vehicle that got daily use and it was never installed.

As it was, the California Emissions Laws changed to exclude any "tampering" even if the set up we had easily reduced the actual emissions by a large margin as proven on the bi-annual checks. There is a Cummins 6.7 sitting on the test stand that will have no use after we finish up tests. I think I can shove that thing in the van and put in a 6 speed 68Rfe and get 20 mpg +.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by racprops

Well that was what I WAS told a couple of years ago...

Guess my friend was lieing...

As I was not running a bio diesel I did not check on his word...OH DEAR ME...

My BAD.

It doesn't help you make your case(s) when every word of every post requires second party verification.

You still haven't answered any of my questions.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by bandit86

A gasoline vapour system, would it not get similar mpg as a propane as long as the btu is adjusted? Propane gas I'd perfectly vapourized as is the object of a gasoline vapour. Unless of course you can make more gasoline vapour from liquid. Steam is water expanded 1700 times

The fact that we heat the fuel and air means the "Reactivity" of the mix has changed. That is why we see detonation in a gasoline engine that has too much engine heat and too much ignition lead. By heating the fuel/air mix, we enter this detonation regime. However, if we can adjust our ignition timing towards TDC ( top dead center ) we can avoid detonation and gain efficiency.

In a lean burn situation, the lazy, erratic combustion characterized by lean mixes can be fortified with a hot fuel/air mix and more torque derived from a lean AFR.

This is technology based on common knowledge science. Emissions production ( NOx ) is the reason we do not see this in production engines. However, NOx traps are now common and can mitigate the NOx. We will see what the future holds in this regard.

[racprops]

done

[racprops]

done

[racprops]

done

[Frank Lee]

Let's start with the earliest and easiest:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/530026-post14.html

[racprops]

done

[racprops]

done

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by racprops

OK;

"Old V8s were lucky to ever crack 20 mpg. But let's be charitable and use 20.

Let's also be charitable ('tis the season) and say we'll save 60%, or use 40% of the 20:

20 / .4 = 50 mpg

That's a long way from 80-120 mpg. In fact it's an exponentially long way.

There must be an error in my analysis.

A little help please!"

Well I have no real idea what old V8 got other that a 67 Mercury Cougar I had with all the silly hot rod stuff on it and found it got around 13MPG no matter what, city or highway, but I figured I had screwed it up.

And my 74 Chevy van which got 12 to 14MPG but it IS a Van and I normally drive fast..

NOW my newer cars get 29 MPG.

So take 30 MPG and get 3 times as much MPG and we are talking 90 MPG.

Seems possible to me.

What they did with old cars I cannot say.

Rich

That is the concept you must start with. It is usually given as a percentage that represents the amount of fuel that is turned into actual mechanical power. Early carburetor equipped vehicles returned 18-22% of their potential fuel energy as mechanical energy at the crank. You cannot obtain more than 100%, I think that is plain. The rest of the energy is lost as coolant heat, exhaust heat and friction heat. Add that all up and you get your 100% of the fuel energy.

If your old Mercury was typical, and converted its fuel energy into mechanical energy at an 18% rate, and pulled down 13 mpg, you would more than double that mileage by using a Toyota Atkinson type engine which currently returns 38% thermal efficiency (TE). Your Mercury could get 26-27 mpg. How can one get higher thermal efficiency? Simply reduce the losses of heat energy to the coolant, out the exhaust and into overcoming friction. Reduce those losses and you will have more mechanical energy to spin the crank. If someone claims 100 percent efficiency, and they have heat in their coolant and out their exhaust and the oil pan is full of hot oil - they don't have 100% efficiency. To be exact, engineers will measure the heat and mass of those very things - coolant, oil and exhaust - to see what proportion of the fuel energy is being wasted and where. Now, remember, mileage is dependent on the vehicle too, not just the engine. Vehicle weight, aerodynamics , drive train losses and rolling resistance all measure in. Using your Mercury again, if you did manage to build the perfect engine and get 100% TE, you would pull down 100%/18% x 13 mpg = 72.2 mpg! That is quite impressive - if it were possible. But you and I know it is impossible to build that perfect 100% efficient engine.

So what can you do to get that 200 mpg? You can do what a member on this forum has already done - start with an efficient car and put an efficient engine in it. That car would be the Centurion. Do a search here on the forum and see a real 200 mpg capable vehicle. Yes, it is light, low, sleek and uses a small Kubota diesel with a TE of around 40%. Now, if the builder of the car chose to use anti-friction coatings and ceramic thermal coatings, he might gain another 5% in TE. In a vehicle that gets 20 mpg like my diesel pickup, that would be only 1 mpg. On the Centurion, that is 10 mpg! If you look at my post on another thread about Charles Pogue and his 200 mpg carburetor, that is essentially what he did to achieve his 200 mpg run. He had a specially modded car to use his carb and make the run. You will not get 100-200 mpg from an everyday car - certainly not your Mercury. Certainly not my Dodge Cummins.