MG Midget + Geo Metro 3cyl = MGeo

[Frankencar]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

well, I didn't finish and get to the Green Car Expo.
Did anyone else go to the expo? what was it like? what did you see? pics?

I'm pretty close to getting the car painted now.

I'm working on the windshield frame. I think I will change it so the glass fits like a modern car, this gives it a flush fit. It will also let me permanently mount the frame to the car since it won't need to be disassembled to replace the glass.

I went. I was one of 2 diesels to show up and the only engine/trans swap or more modded home-built car that attended as part of the owner showcase. It was mostly leaf/insight/prius... and one tesla. It was a very cool show, but needed more creative home-built stuff. I hope to get a chance to see your car in person sometime! It is something I have wanted to build, it's just not been practical for me to do yet. an MG seems like the perfect eco-car project base. Here is my post about the show:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post328184

[nimblemotors]

With the pressure off on finishing the car, haven't done too much.
I frenched in the license plate.
I worked on the rear wheel covers and have decided I need to redo the wheel wells.. Oh yes, even more work. The lip molding needs to go, there is no reason for it, the tires are all tucked in, it just protrudes from the body, so I need to make the rear quarters flush. So that is next, will have pics when its done.
Jack

[MetroMPG]

Any more updates, Jack?

[nimblemotors]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Any more updates, Jack?

nope, put it up for the winter and haven't brought it out yet.
I'm trying to finish my winter projects! bathroom remodel,
a jetski rebuild, and a custom jetboat.
Also have a Rx7 in the garage right now I need to get running.

But winter is over, this car WILL be finished before summers end.

JackB

[93hatchDX]

what are the best cars for this type of thing?

Fiat, MG, Datsun, alfa, ?

What are the best high FE engines for this idea? geo 3 cyl- 600cc turbo diesel, ?

[GreenHornet]

Originally Posted by 93hatchDX

what are the best cars for this type of thing?

Fiat, MG, Datsun, alfa, ?

What are the best high FE engines for this idea? geo 3 cyl- 600cc turbo diesel, ?

What are the best cars for this type of thing?

The best type of cars are light weight like under 1,700lbs curb weight, have removable bodies like VW bugs, Have a solid aftermarket for easy parts sourcing, one that is older than 1975 for ease of licensing in the US, and one that you can pick up dirt cheap that is a rolling chassis.

What are the best high FE engines for this idea? geo 3 cyl- 600cc turbo diesel, ?

Gas = Fast and Diesel = distance

This can be argued in the right situations and many may disagree with this but let me explain the reasoning a little. Can diesels go fast absolutely just look at who has one the Le Mans race in recent years. They have been dominated by diesels. This is no surprise as diesel fuel has more BTU than gas there for more energy. I can literally write a page as to why a diesel is a much better option for a MPG project than a Kei or Geo 3 cylinder. Diesel engines themselves are more efficient at converting fuel to energy also than gas engines and they will last longer in general. There are many 1 Liter sized diesel engined cars that get over 100mpg and are nothing special in regards to coefficient of drag and ecomodding mods.

Here is an example of a small 1.1 Liter Kubota diesel tractor engined car that gets 100mpg = MAX: Our Quest for a DIY 100-MPG Car - Green Transportation - MOTHER EARTH NEWS

In order to drive at highway speeds in a small light weight car you will only need around 12hp if that with the right gearing setup!

If you want better mileage than a small micro diesel such as 750cc or less is the direction you want to go. If you are worried about acceleration with such a small engine then you hybridize it with electric and achieve greater acceleration and obtain start stop no idle and engine shutoff during cruise for even better MPG ability This route will also give you the option of regenerative braking another bonus for the ecomodder!

The best fuel economy ability will come from a small light car with a small displacement diesel engine period

In my experience 85 mph is more than adequate top speed for a vehicle and 12hp with the right car and gearing will get you there. This is a great forum with loads of info on how to go about a high mpg build so do your research and ask a lot of questions. The majority of people here are very helpful in this regard. You can PM me anytime if you ever have a question.

Good luck,

GH..

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by 3hatchDX

what are the best cars for this type of thing?

Whatever most closely approximates the Edison2 Very Light Car.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

Hello, let me introduce my MPG project, a '71 MG Midget, getting a Geo Metro 3-cyl engine (Suzuki G10).

The MG folks like a restoration, the Suzuki engine guys want more power,
so I've come here to show my project.

I'm trying to achieve a pretty high MPG with this little car.
I stripped out a Metro quite a while back for its trans and suspension for another EV project, and have had this engine collecting dust for a while.
Thought I might just use it for a backup generator, or maybe an air compressor, but I acquired a '71 MG Midget unfinished project at a great price and have decided to put the G10 motor in it, and build it for super high MPG. The Midget is a very small and light car, stock it is only 1500lbs.
The G10 engine is about 100lbs lighter than the iron 4-cyl that was stock.
And its has some pretty heavy sheet metal, so I think I can get its weight down to maybe 1200lbs.

I just got the engine running on a stand, going through all the wiring to strip out just what is needed to run the engine.

I'm trying to figure out how much time I should spend modifying the engine before I put it in the car. Been thinking I should just throw it in and get it running, but I really want to modify the G10 motor to make it lighter and get better MPG.

I want to replace the TBI fuel injection with my own system, convert it to port injection and distributerless ignition (coil on plug). Raise the compression significantly, and use water injection. Then tune it to maximize efficiency at around 2,000 rpm for 65mph cruising.

Make it hybrid -- removing the starter and alternator, and add a more powerful electric motor that will spin it as an assist, with a small
battery pack that can recharged from a socket (Plugin Hybrid).

Any comments or suggestions?

Jack Murray
Nimble Motorsports

First an apology for finding your thread so late.And for not reading the entire thread.
The drag coefficient for the MG is on the order of twice that of the Metro,and even with its smaller frontal area and light weight it will have a higher overall road load horsepower demand than the Metro at highway speed.
You're looking at major streamlining just to catch back up to the Metro.Which would entail a very streamlined roof.
And I don't think your windshield will make it.A-pillars and header are the issue.Just not enough radius.Leaning the windshield might help with the header issue,but you'd have to narrow the glass to allow for the A-pillars otherwise the roof would be wider than the car's body.
I'd consider losing the windshield altogether,do a hard tonneau for the passenger side and try 'n locate a windshield from a Corbin Sparrow and do a 'solo' roof just wide enough for you as we've seen on one of the Metro mod projects or Bug Wing Beetle.
If anyone has already mentioned these things,I apologize for the redundancy.

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by aerohead

First an apology for finding your thread so late.And for not reading the entire thread.
The drag coefficient for the MG is on the order of twice that of the Metro,and even with its smaller frontal area and light weight it will have a higher overall road load horsepower demand than the Metro at highway speed.
You're looking at major streamlining just to catch back up to the Metro.Which would entail a very streamlined roof.
And I don't think your windshield will make it.A-pillars and header are the issue.Just not enough radius.Leaning the windshield might help with the header issue,but you'd have to narrow the glass to allow for the A-pillars otherwise the roof would be wider than the car's body.
I'd consider losing the windshield altogether,do a hard tonneau for the passenger side and try 'n locate a windshield from a Corbin Sparrow and do a 'solo' roof just wide enough for you as we've seen on one of the Metro mod projects or Bug Wing Beetle.
If anyone has already mentioned these things,I apologize for the redundancy.

Paraphrased: "Sorry, you just wasted the last three years of your life."

[GreenHornet]

I tend to agree with Aerohead and that was my initial thoughts as well as I reviewed the project. However I believe you can improve much upon the original coefficient of drag if you are willing to change the MG look and styling. This will take some serious composite work but can and would be worth it in the end if your goal is fuel economy. Clean up the wheel wells, front bonnet, under tray, and rear end and you will be on your way. You need to incorporate some sort of fast back design that tapers back smoothly into a boat tail for best aero efficiency. Reinforced composite would be the way to go here for sure in my opinion.

Altering the body design is more complicated with the MG cars vs the triumph Spitfire/GT6 in my hybrid diesel electric project as you can not remove the steel body shell as it is a structural component and integrated component of the chassis. In my kit car design I have the ability to completely remove the old heavy rusty steel Spit/GT6 body shell with only 10 bolts and then with those same 10 bolts fit a modern light weight highly aerodynamic body shell that will give me an incredible coefficient of drag onto the light weight backbone chassis.

If you had this same ability with the MG you would be golden but then well it would really not be an MG anymore it would be a kitcar! By going with a mild hybrid design and minor aero tweaks you still will be able to improve upon fuel economy for sure over the MG and most likely the Geo and come out on top.

Good luck with the project I can't wait to see the final outcome.

GH