Myth Busters SUCKS! (HHO mod, does it work?)

[Christ]

Originally Posted by tjts1

HHO is BS
[/thread]

It's not quite that simple, my friend.

[Frank Lee]

Well... it pretty much is.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Well... it pretty much is.

As people are portraying it, yes. Being done in an on-car system, most definitely. HHO systems in general? Nah. Tney're useful, that's been proven. In fact, you can use them to make your own fuel, provided you have no better use for some renewable electricity (as in, your house is already powered, and you have excess, but you don't make money from it, or wouldn't make enough money from it to cover the cost of fuel that you'd otherwise replace).

It's not a difficult concept to accept, really.

As a matter of fact, I can't find the link my 'marks right now, but there is a guy that has a H2 powered Civic as his DD, and uses hydrogen storage in some rather large tanks with electrolyzers to make H2 and store it, then recombine it with water later on to make electricity, or pump some off to fill up his car. His main power source is solar and wind, the H2 is to store excess energy, as he's completely off-grid. It's more efficient than batteries, for sure, and is also multipurpose, in that it fuels his car as well.

[Frank Lee]

I want to see a proven system that I can't shoot down, as that hasn't happened yet.

[Christ]

Check the entire island of Norway... they're building an infrastructure that is unassisted, runs on solar energy, and produces hydrogen and stores it for later use by passing motorists.

HyNor — HyNor

[Frank Lee]

Do I believe hydrogen assisted lean burn combustion works? Yes.

Do I believe anyone has ever achieved anything worthwhile with automotive electrolysis HHO? No.

Is that hydrogen project in Norway related to HHO in any way, shape, or form? Not so much.

[vielecustoms]

my old landlord used to make and experiment with his own systems. he was just starting and the gains were not huge but he did get an extra 20 mpg, on a Saturn and neon, from the system he had built. supposedly now he is getting more. one big part is not just the HHO generator but being able to control the fuel system in the vehicle, to lean out the fuel mixture. (the o2 sensor will read the extra oxygen fron the generator and actually add more gas to the mix if there is no way to control it). he also changed all the fluids to synthetics, ran the tires at just above the max pressure and made this thing that heated the fuel before it was injected. and of course driving easily. I am sure his other mod's could have had helped with the overall gain. his website is Hydrogen-Boost I am not spamming, he has some information and videos on there that may be useful, there is some usual sales BS but you can make your own opinion.

[basjoos]

Originally Posted by Christ

Check the entire island of Norway... they're building an infrastructure that is unassisted, runs on solar energy, and produces hydrogen and stores it for later use by passing motorists.

HyNor — HyNor

I never knew that Norway had become an island. The last I heard it was still solidly attached to the Eurasian continent. Also, considering their high latitude with its very short winter days, they would have to have a lot of hydrogen storage capacity to carry the surplus generated during the long days of summer to supply the hydrogen demand through the winter. With their low sun angles from their high latitude and their abundant hydropower, I'm surprised the Norwegians would even be considering solar.

[PA32R]

Originally Posted by Christ

As people are portraying it, yes. Being done in an on-car system, most definitely. HHO systems in general? Nah. Tney're useful, that's been proven. In fact, you can use them to make your own fuel, provided you have no better use for some renewable electricity (as in, your house is already powered, and you have excess, but you don't make money from it, or wouldn't make enough money from it to cover the cost of fuel that you'd otherwise replace).

It's not a difficult concept to accept, really.

As a matter of fact, I can't find the link my 'marks right now, but there is a guy that has a H2 powered Civic as his DD, and uses hydrogen storage in some rather large tanks with electrolyzers to make H2 and store it, then recombine it with water later on to make electricity, or pump some off to fill up his car. His main power source is solar and wind, the H2 is to store excess energy, as he's completely off-grid. It's more efficient than batteries, for sure, and is also multipurpose, in that it fuels his car as well.

Uh, yeah. Nobody has claimed that you can't use electricity to extract hydrogen from water, or that hydrogen doesn't burn. Kind of irrelevant to the "run your car on water" folks though. What you're talking about isn't what they're talking about. So as Frank Lee says, it pretty much is that simple.

[cfg83]

vielecustoms -

Originally Posted by vielecustoms

my old landlord used to make and experiment with his own systems. he was just starting and the gains were not huge but he did get an extra 20 mpg, on a Saturn and neon, from the system he had built. supposedly now he is getting more. one big part is not just the HHO generator but being able to control the fuel system in the vehicle, to lean out the fuel mixture. (the o2 sensor will read the extra oxygen fron the generator and actually add more gas to the mix if there is no way to control it). he also changed all the fluids to synthetics, ran the tires at just above the max pressure and made this thing that heated the fuel before it was injected. and of course driving easily. I am sure his other mod's could have had helped with the overall gain. his website is Hydrogen-Boost I am not spamming, he has some information and videos on there that may be useful, there is some usual sales BS but you can make your own opinion.

For post-carburetor gasoline engines, I think the big question in all these systems is that you always have to fool the 02 sensor into running lean for HHO to work. I think an argument can be made that MPG gains can come from running lean, period (i.e. Honda VX or HX). Running lean doesn't need an HHO generator to work. Another claim is better emissions. This may be possible, but juggling lean-burn with controlled HHO output implies the need for a more complex control system.

I got his system back in 2005, but I never got it work. He told me to install the whole system. In his defense, I didn't do that, so I can't claim I did the full test. I didn't do things like spoof the 02 sensor or attach the fuel heater. By the time I did get an 02 spoofer, I had removed the hydrogen system, and was too lazee to restart it.

In this post I noted that he actually shot down his system on a Metro where the driver is hypermiling :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/76143-post18.html

This is consistent with the argument that hydrogen works best on a vehicle that is doing *work*, aka a trucker hauling goods or a stationary engine on a contruction site. I consider the following dude to be an "honest broker" on the subject :

Diesel Dynamometer Testing Analysis
Hydrogen-Boost

If I had a diesel, I would probably try this again because I wouldn't have to add a lot of the other doo-dads.

Also, from my POV, even if the system netted 0 MPG gain or loss, but improved emissions, it would be a net gain for me.

CarloSW2