Myth Busters SUCKS! (HHO mod, does it work?)

[RacerX]

[QUOTE=ihatejoefitz;38013]No.

Ok, If that's true.....Say you had a tank of H2 and built a nozzle set up or something like you would see on a fork lift, Some kind of injection. Put it on your car as an assist. What would be the gain....10,20,30,40,50 % increase.......? More??? Less???

[ttoyoda]

JamesLaugesen,
Just to clarify, I meant that changing the gasoline fuel flow with pulse width modualtion of the injectors would act as a throttle.

[RacerX]

LOL Throwing a bottle in your car sounds real easy......Anybody know how much $ it is ? I'll do it this weekend....If it was cheap and that easy everybody would be doing it....

[ttoyoda]

ihatejoefitz
In the link you provided to debunk:
http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam2.shtml
it says:

"Yes, the addition of H2 and O2 the intake of an engine does appear to improve the thermal efficiency by (in the case of the tests cited) an astonishing 15%."

There are a lot of BUTs circling that, but still. Thanks for the link!

[silverknight]

I want to do what I am doing because I am tired of reading the back and forth that this does and does not work. If it works then ill build more and with better features. If it doesn't work then Ill build differently and probably make my own solar hydrogen generation for a small motor. Either way I want to get my hands dirty with clean energy.

[JamesLaugesen]

Originally Posted by silverknight

I want to do what I am doing because I am tired of reading the back and forth that this does and does not work.

Ditto, and thanks for the PWM explaination (and ttoyota).

[ttoyoda]

ihatejoefitz (again )
This other link you provided has an internal contradiction/handwaving:
http://community.discovery.com/eve/f...8/m/2321969559

It says first:
"There are thermal losses from heat engines. From Carnot, the MAXIMUM possible efficiency from our engine is 70-75%. The real value is about 25% due to friction and the fact that the combustion is not spontaneously reversible."
Then it says:
"We know we can't affect the thermal efficiency of the Carnot cycle by very much, so 75% is still going to be "wasted". Even if the hydrogen did act as a "catalyst", there is no more energy to be released -- 99% of the gasoline does undergo combustion. A 300% gain in efficiency would imply that we are now getting 399% of the theoretically-retrievable energy that the gasoline contains (well, actually more than 399% because we also need to cover the losses from the electrolysis). This is just asinine and Carnot says otherwise. Energy can not be created from nothing -- the gasoline can NOT give more than 100% of what it has."

The writer seems to have ignored/discounted the possibility that engine changes such as later timing could reduce engine losses of friction and heat transfer to the cylinder.
The energy calculations for gas production are interesting, if correct. So far all I have found is amp needs, and of course amps is current, not energy. Tells me what to google for, which is good.

[idtent]

Maybe I'm just too hot headed but I was just wondering if anyone read my post or was the info irrelevant

[ihatejoefitz]

I'm only through the 3rd video, but so far the man at the whiteboard seems to know what he is talking about. What I have taken away so far is that hydrogen is a great fuel for ICEs, but that the ones in my car and in yours are not optimal. So far hes talked about changing the intake, cooling, spark controls, flywheel, fuel injection, ect! Replace your engine with one optimized for hydrogen and find a source for hydrogen and you might have something beneficial.

Originally Posted by RacerX

Ok, If that's true.....Say you had a tank of H2 and built a nozzle set up or something like you would see on a fork lift, Some kind of injection. Put it on your car as an assist. What would be the gain....10,20,30,40,50 % increase.......? More??? Less???

By HHO mod I assume some type of in car hydrogen generator using work created by some combustion cycle. Percent gain as far as fuel economy? It would be a loss. My car is designed to use gasoline. Hydrogen is a fuel and as such it should be included in fuel economy. How do you think an engine that is designed to run on gasoline will do on any other fuel, economy wise?

[silverknight]

Originally Posted by idtent

Maybe I'm just too hot headed but I was just wondering if anyone read my post or was the info irrelevant

The info was not irrelevant. I might be testing a smacks booster cell to see how it performs. It is hard to show that it is working especially to more skeptical people when you only give a little description and no hard numbers like trip miles and gallons for your run. As far as the other stuff like Meyers, unless someone from that crowd can replicate it, prove the claims, and give away/sell the plans, it doesn't matter because its not accessible anymore. I need something that will work now. If a better process emerges then great, that can be adapted. If you build another one then use KOH or NaOH not lye. Document everything you do, your results, and post it then.