Need some insight on an Insight (just bought, IMA light came on, various codes)

[1carnut]

I just bought a 2000 Insight with 183k miles. On the test drive it just had a check engine light which when I pulled the code appeared to be just an O2 sensor or something along that line. It drove pretty well and the Auto Stop was functioning. The charge/assist was working and the pack seemed to be charging correctly. I went ahead and purchased the car and fast forward about 10 miles into my trip home and the IMA light came on . The dealer was not willing to take the car back or work with me whatsoever. No big surprise. Before the IMA light came on, I was going up a decent hill so the Assist was on for a bit of time. Seems like as soon as the charge was exhausted, the IMA light appeared. Now I have the following codes:
P1162 - Powertrain
P0134 - O2 Sensor
P1449 - Powertrain
I am really hoping someone with some knowledge of these cars could spend a bit of time with me helping me figure out what all I need and what the best course of action is. From the reading I have done so far, I'm pretty sure I will need a grid charger to start. I'm not sure where to begin. Any and all help appreciated. I'm NE of Cincinnati and willing to travel to meet someone willing to go over this thing with me. Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, Indy or possibly farther.

[jamesqf]

The IMA light does come on on older Insights (at least on mine) when the battery is exhausted. Rebalancing the battery pack helps, but basically I just learn not to run down the battery beyond a certain point, by e.g. downshifting on grades.

To reset the IMA codes, you need to pull one of the fuses in the box by the driver's left leg and wait 10 seconds or so. (With engine off: I use the key to pop out the fuse.) I think it's number 18: I put a dab of epoxy on mine so I can do it by feel.

As I recall, replacing the O2 sensor is an easy fix, about like changing a spark plug. The sensor isn't cheap, though.

[S Keith]

First, blink the IMA codes:

http://99mpg.com/mikestips/readingtheblinkcod/

There is valuable secondary data associated with the P1449 code.

P1449 is among the worst of the battery related codes indicating severe imbalance and/or deteriorated capacity.

The other two are likely both associated with a bad O2 sensor.

First, load test your 12V battery. The IMA system does not behave well when the 12V gets weak. Don't test the voltage, don't say, "but it's only a year old," or "I bought it last month." LOAD TEST IT.

Second, check your ground straps from the engine to the frame. These can look good, but have breaks/corrosion inside the rubber cover that renders them ineffective. On a manual, there are 2 plus the battery negative cable. On a CVT, I believe there is only one plus the battery negative cable. Look behind/below the airbox.

Replacing them on principle and cleaning their contact points is just good measure. They are not expensive.

Once you have confirmed 100% that these are good, reset the 12V system by disconnecting the battery for 30 seconds.

Upon reconnect, start and idle the car. If the IMA pack isn't too far gone, you'll see it charging. Allow it to charge until it won't anymore, and the battery gauge starts moving to full. Do not drive the car at this time.

If it won't charge at idle, make up to 5 attempts with 12V resets. Depending on the blink code, you may have bigger issues associated with failed cells/sticks inside the pack. Grid charging/discharging is generally recommended first, but sometimes pack replacement with aftermarket packs from Bumblebee or Hybrid ReVolt are the most economical option.

If you don't need to pass emissions in your area, the IMA system can be bypassed and run on gas only. There are some restrictions, but the car is very functional, and it's highway mileage is as good as ever. Power from a stop and during hill climbing is terrible on a MT. It's a little better on the CVT, but not a lot.

Lastly, take this inquiry over the Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum. While many frequent multiple related sites including ecomodder, you will get some very direct help from some dedicated Insight enthusiasts. Make sure you update your profile to indicate your location. Someone might be able to help you in your area.

Steve

[cowmeat]

Holy cow, yeah like he said!

If I still lived in Milford I'd run over and help you install a grid charger harness, but since I'm in sunny Florida now, it's a bit of a drive.

[3-Wheeler]

Sounds like your battery will need some trickle charging to help get it balanced again. In that case, the link will give you some valuable information.

Picasa Web Albums - Jim - Battery Trick...

Jim.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler

Sounds like your battery will need some trickle charging to help get it balanced again. In that case, the link will give you some valuable information.

Picasa Web Albums - Jim - Battery Trick...

Jim.

This is generally true; however, it depends on the source of the P1449. If it's P1449(74), it's likely that you have a shorted cell, and no amount of grid charging will produce useful results.

For a cheap and quick grid charger:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager...sID=43eb56731e

Steve

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by S Keith

...reset the 12V system by disconnecting the battery for 30 seconds.

The fuse pull is more convenient, and it won't reset your clock &c like disconnecting the battery does. I've never noticed any difference...

Do not drive the car at this time.

Why not? I always have, and have not noticed any adverse effects.

Power from a stop and during hill climbing is terrible on a MT.

From a start, yes, but for hill climbing you just need to downshift and keep the revs up. Even with a (nearly) new battery, I'd run out of assist long before I get to the top of any real hill. IIRC, it was good for maybe 1500 vertical feet at highway speed and about 6% grade.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

The fuse pull is more convenient, and it won't reset your clock &c like disconnecting the battery does. I've never noticed any difference...



Why not? I always have, and have not noticed any adverse effects.



From a start, yes, but for hill climbing you just need to downshift and keep the revs up. Even with a (nearly) new battery, I'd run out of assist long before I get to the top of any real hill. IIRC, it was good for maybe 1500 vertical feet at highway speed and about 6% grade.

I like the completeness of the 12V reset to clear all codes.

He's trying to recover from a P1449. Best to let the battery charge steady for as long as it can. In fact, I prefer to do 2-3 12V reset/charge cycles until the final charge cycle takes almost no time.

Concerning the MT power, I'm just parroting what everybody at IC says. Both of mine are CVT. One batt is nearly new and flawless, the other is ailing badly. Power is noticeably down, but pretty easy to deal with.

Steve

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by S Keith

He's trying to recover from a P1449. Best to let the battery charge steady for as long as it can. In fact, I prefer to do 2-3 12V reset/charge cycles until the final charge cycle takes almost no time.

Just seems like an awful waste of gas to me. One charge like that burns up maybe 3 months worth of autostop savings. (YMMV: I don't do a lot of city driving.)

[1carnut]

Thanks Steve,
I finally got to spend a little time on this thing today. I do not have a load tester so I just took it to Autozone. They said that the 12v battery is bad. Showed fully charged but not holding as many volts as it should? Car starts fine and I've driven it around some and it seems to function decent without the IMA assist. I did not have a chance to replace the negative and other 2 cables as you suggested. The battery is only a year old. So is the fact that the IMA/battery system is not functioning properly killing the 12V battery? I assume I should get the other issue resolved first before changing the 12V?