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Old 09-29-2008, 01:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The 'new' Paseo

This weekend I picked up a 96 Paseo that needs some work. It has a siezed engine, busted rear window, faded paint, and broken door handle. Of course, I only paid $325 (delivered) for it.

The plan will be to rebuild the engine or drop in a salvage yard engine, new window and door handle. I probably won't do anything with the paint. After that, I'll probably sell it cheap to a friend or family member. I know a lot of people looking for a nice small car that gets good mileage. If they don't want it I'll make a few bucks reselling it on CL.

Sorry Darin, I don't think I'm gonna make an EV. I did consider it though! It'll save a lot more gas by replacing someone elses guzzler vs me putting a few miles on it every few months. I don't have the funds to make it a full blown highway EV which is what I would need to get to work.





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Old 09-29-2008, 05:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Come on Daox, you did pick it up for a song, and the engine is already toast, why not hold on it for a bit and then go EV? Would be cool......
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It looks positively electric.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Specialized engine swap? Full undertray?

You could have your own shop converting Toyotas into even more fuel efficient machines!

...or just go electric All your friends are doin' it

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Old 09-30-2008, 07:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I've definitly thought about tweaking the car before selling it. Not exactly sure what I'd do yet, but I've thought about it.

Oh you guys are so bad egging me on! You KNOW I want to do it... Okay, I'll entertain the idea for the sake of learning. But, I need some info and help.

What would it take to meet the following requirements?

-60 mph for highway traveling (65 mph speed limit)
-45 mile range (work is 21 miles each way and I don't know if I could plug in there)
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Here are my rough calculations (thanks Darin) on what I would need.

45 mile round trip
estimated 450 Wh per mile @ 60 mph (number based off this and Darin's numbers)
45 miles * 450 Wh = 20250 Wh of battery capacity
20250 * 2 (so I don't go below 50% discharge to retain battery life) = 40500 Wh of battery capacity

12V Trojan T-1275 has 150Ah * 12V = 1800 Wh of capacity per battery
40500 / 1800 = 22.5 batteries worth of capacity
we'll just call it 24 batteries to make it easy to split up into series/parallel

24 batteries * 82 lbs each = 1968 lbs


So, as you can see, getting the Paseo to have a range of 45 miles @ 60 mph is no simple task. 24 batteries weighs almost as much as the stock car! I'm looking into if I can plug in at work or not. That would only require 12 batteries then.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Here are my rough calculations (thanks Darin) on what I would need.

45 mile round trip
estimated 450 Wh per mile @ 60 mph (number based off this and Darin's numbers)
45 miles * 450 Wh = 20250 Wh of battery capacity
20250 * 2 (so I don't go below 50% discharge to retain battery life) = 40500 Wh of battery capacity

12V Trojan T-1275 has 150Ah * 12V = 1800 Wh of capacity per battery
40500 / 1800 = 22.5 batteries worth of capacity
we'll just call it 24 batteries to make it easy to split up into series/parallel

24 batteries * 82 lbs each = 1968 lbs


So, as you can see, getting the Paseo to have a range of 45 miles @ 60 mph is no simple task. 24 batteries weighs almost as much as the stock car! I'm looking into if I can plug in at work or not. That would only require 12 batteries then.
You're probably overquoting your Wh/mi a bit (one Paseo in the EVAlbum uses 362 Wh/mi), but yes, a Paseo is really pushing it, unless you can charge at work or within walking distance of work. That same 362 Wh/mi Paseo is rated for 45 miles range with brand new batteries. That means that it won't be long before you won't have the juice to reach that unless, like you said, you load enough lead to only use 50%.

This is the one case where a small pickup would probably be better. Much more room for batteries, better load capacity, easier to convert and you already know how to make those more aero. :-) A high-mpg car is probably better off being sold off to offset somebody's gas guzzler than being converted to electric itself.
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Old 10-03-2008, 02:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
12V Trojan T-1275 has 150Ah * 12V = 1800 Wh of capacity per battery
40500 / 1800 = 22.5 batteries worth of capacity
we'll just call it 24 batteries to make it easy to split up into series/parallel

24 batteries * 82 lbs each = 1968 lbs
You'll need more than that. The 20hr rate for 'em is 150ah, but to drag out your commute over 20hrs would require an average speed of about 2mph. The 5hr rate is 120ah so if anything you'll get less than that, and probably need ~3000lbs of lead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
So, as you can see, getting the Paseo to have a range of 45 miles @ 60 mph is no simple task. 24 batteries weighs almost as much as the stock car! I'm looking into if I can plug in at work or not. That would only require 12 batteries then.
Only if the elevation of your work is that same as your home, your commute is pretty flat, and there aren't winds to screw with your energy consumption in one direction, plus you'll still need closer to ~16-17 batteries.

Aeromoddingthe crap out of the car like Basjoos would really cut costs and increase range regardless of chemsitry so that's first on the list IMO. I think you may be better off going with LiFePO4's from China stuff provided you grab a pack first and test it extensively to verify the manufacturer's claims, but the downside is a huge layout of ~$8,000-$16,000 for the pack depending on where you can charge it. If you do end up going with lead, I really discourage you from using the paseo stock, since even with extreme mods the car will be too heavy to stop/handle safely.

If you go with lead I recommend looking around for a small pickup truck with a similar price and junking/selling everything except for the rolling frame/brakes. You'll use that (no rear axle either) as your base, probably best with an old 4sp transaxle (lightest I've found) driving one of the rear wheels coupled to your electric motor with the aeromodded and roll caged (for safety) frame bolted on top. That way you get the ability to carry a lot of weight safely as well as the small profile/size of a compact car plus some extra room to make aeromods w/o having to extend 'em beyond the vehicle itself. If you do it well it should be able to handle a couple thousand pounds of batteries with plenty of room in terms of weight to carry passengers/stuff safely as well as use ~100-150Wh/mile cruising at 60mph on flat ground with no wind. With a bare frame you can also weld battery boxes under each side for easy access as well as a ton of weight down low which should be great for handling (think the Tango), and naturally a really good beefy cage up top just in case it somehow manages to flip. Anyway, a setup like this should be able to cruise for ~50+miles@60mph/50% dod with 18 T-875s while having ~800lbs of safe carrying capacity.

Oh, and check out this EV calculator to check out how changing the alignment/rolling resistance/aero drag increases range.

P.S. But (there's always a but), even if the batteries last for 1000 cycles at 50% dod, based on current prices of ~$150/battery and electricity at 10c/kWh, the vehicle will still cost ~7+c/mile to run, the same as a car averaging ~50mpg with $3.50/gallon gas. If everything I've been hearing about LFPs is correct, and you drag them down to 50% capacity, it would cost ~4c/mile including electricity at 10c/kWh, so you would need something that averaged ~90mpg to see the same costs, not counting the extra work/money needed to maintain a normal car.


Last edited by roflwaffle; 10-03-2008 at 03:01 PM..
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