Noob in search of help with Integra

[RIZOBIZERT]

Hi Ecomodder members,

I currently drive a Civic hatch, EG. I like to drive fast on occasion and the Civic stinks in this area. I also enjoy saving fuel and spending less money so I'm trying for the best of both worlds. I've decided to scrap the hatch which has a 2006 RSX-S K20 in it. I'm going to swap everything into a 1994 Integra RS (no moon roof). I have another Integra I'll be swapping the ABS off of. I'd like performance, safety and fuel efficiency. I've had the moon roof come unglued twice on my Civic at 120 mph, yes, I know, the fuel efficiency was terrible at that speed. I figure better aerodynamics will make the vehicle go faster and accelerate faster with the same horsepower I have now. Despite the Integra being heavier than my hatch the aerodynamics are well worth the 200-300 lbs. in weight. I'm going to build an under body tray, rear diffuser and block off some of the front air dam area. I'm utilizing a Kpro and I have the ability to run lean when at partially throttle and rich when full throttle. I can play with the timing and cam advance as well. At this point there is more that the Kpro can do than I know how to do, so I'm figuring things out slowly. I was also thinking of building a Kammback. I know the rear of the Integra is less than that of my hatch, but I'd like to see how much it improves things. I'm running short gears with the transmission and I know a higher gear would help, but I enjoy the tight gearing. I would consider a taller 6th gear for the highway as I'm turning about 4000 RPM at 70-75 mph. In my hatch I'm getting 36 mpg, but this is not accurate as my speedo is registering more miles than I am traveling (smaller diameter wheels). I would guess it is somewhere between 30-34 mpg in truth. I'm keeping my outside mirrors despite them being dirty air. I tow a variety of trailers on occasion and I like to see as much as possible. I'm willing to sacrifice that mpg. I was considering building rear wheel covers for the quarter panels and I've been very impressed by the aerocivic. What I'd like to do is get the best mpg I can and still be able to romp on a GT Mustang. I'm currently just a bit faster than a GT Mustang up to about 80 or so, I let up at that point, no need for a ticket. This was from a standing start. So, I want the best of all worlds as you can see. I was even thinking of building a shield just behind the radiator and in front of the motor to direct air up and through the top of the hood (cut a hole in the hood to exhaust the air). I don't know if I'd have enough room for this as I don't have the engine in yet, but I'd like to get some thoughts on that. In all the aerodynamic builds I want to keep the car planted and I was even considering a Type R wing as it is actually supposed to be functional. This is a long way off, so I'll see how the car drives without it. Okay, a little bit of everything, fuel efficiency, power, safety, lend me your thoughts.

Thanks for your constructive comments in advance.

[moonmonkey]

welcome to the site..we are pretty much mpg guys, here. sounds like you want advise on getting more mpg, while driving really fast ,,not gonna happen,, most of us like to compete with the gas gauge to see how many mpg we can get, its safer/cheaper than street racing, but i did it when i was younger, 340 cuda.. good luck .rizo look around the site alot of great info and people here.

[MadisonMPG]

tl;dr

[RIZOBIZERT]

I understand you're all about the MPG, but let me throw this out there to you. People who want to conserve wildlife or save certain species often choose one that is cute or covers a broad range in hopes of saving other species as well. If you show the performance community the benefits of aerodynamics, or saving fuel at part throttle, they are in a way saving fuel. Something I haven't seen mentioned on ecomodder, but may be here is speed through the turn. While most of your driving is straight, maintaining high corner speed means you don't have to accelerate as much when you exit the turn. Every morning I drive the interstate to work. I take the on ramp much faster than anyone else....it's my little moment of joy on the entire drive. I'm not like everyone else who goes 10 mph over the speed limit. Going fast in a straight line isn't all that much fun for me especially 10 mph over the limit....ohhh, feel the rush, not really. This is just fast enough to waste gas and get you a ticket. Time and time again I see folks who nail the brakes on their tanks just to floor it in the straights. It just doesn't make sense to me. I know you guys don't "floor it", but if you can maintain higher corner speeds not only by lowering the center of gravity (as most of you do), but also with the addition of sway bars and bushings then you can maintain a consistent speed even through the turn, despite your high energy tires. I'm running some stock 14" tires off a junk car I bought and they stick great in the turns. Of course all this is dependent on the traffic in front of you. One other ecomodder story for all who read this. I was traveling to Washington D.C. from Florida once and as I left Florida I noticed a Florida tag in Georgia. I also noticed this vehicle because he was going 10-15 mph faster than me. I kept the speed steady and at the post limits. I traveled straight through without stopping. This was in my wife's 2001 Pink Civic Coupe getting 37 mph or so. The car that passed us was a Honda CRV. He passed us about 4 times during the trip, but I never passed him, so I know he was constantly stopping for fuel due to pushing his tank through the air at such speeds. We reached Virginia for our second fuel stop about 800+ miles into the trip and guess who we met at the pump at 4 a.m.? Yep, Mr. Crv with his Florida tag. I didn't say a thing, but maybe he figured it out that he had seen this slow (to his standards) pink Civic the entire trip. How do you miss a Pink Civic? Okay, I'm a little off topic, but the story was interesting. Basically, if you can save the Florida Panther, but you're also saving the rare moth that inhabits the same area wouldn't you do it? Show the lead footers the benefits of what you've done and you'll win. No, they may not slow down, but ultimately they are using less fuel to drive the way they do, you've won. I'm still going to put the pedal to the metal on occasion, but for the most part you guys are winning me over and I'll be conserving fuel. Better fuel mileage with the same engine and better aerodynamics = more power felt.....not that you've added any more power, but the car works easier. Don't hate the lead footers, show them the benefits of aerodynamics.

Thanks again.

[k.civic.f4i]

to drop a k20 into that eg mustve been near 5 grand.

i think youre better of sticking with an eg than a dc. its just a better platform for mpg. what would be the purpose of switching to a dc? i think the most beneficial advice you can get from this site FOR your objective is to do a full underbody pan, seal the front openings around your hood with door insulation tape and maybe a grill block(but you might be running an oversized radiator).....oh yea and remove all the unnecessary stuff like the lip i expect you probably have.

look man. everything has its purpose and our cars weren't meant to perform...in that sense. the nsx, corvette and viper were. judging by how much you mustv'e spent on that engine swap, you obviously don't have money savings as a motive. if you want to go fast i suggest grabbing a motorcycle(run near 10 seconds stock, less than half the price, relatively good on gas....and you''ll be smoking all the cars you want). peace and love bro

[RIZOBIZERT]

I'm not all about speed. I'm trying to find a compromise on a variety of issues. Yes, the K swap is expensive and with regards to money, I'm going through the Dave Ramsey "Total Money Makeover". So, yes, I do care about money. There's a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde to me. Yes, I want to go fast on occasion, or stick it in a turn, but 90% of the time or better it's just me in that steel box cruising along. As for the motorcycle, I agree, but again it's not all about that and if I were to add various aerodynamic items to that bike wouldn't it make it faster or accelerate quicker potentially? This is where ecomodder comes in. I know how to make my car faster, I know how to make it stop better and I know how to make it turn faster, but I'm not real familiar with making it more efficient or aerodynamic. So, back to one of my original questions:

Has anyone used a Kpro for fuel efficiency as well as power when going to wide open throttle?

Has anyone put a Kammback on an Integra? Yes, the roof line on the Integra slopes, but then there is all that dirty air around the tail lamps and the rear bumper. On my particular car I have a class III hitch from a Ford F350. It's on the car in place of my rear reinforcement. I was thinking of making a Kammback that is removable via the hitch. I could plug in the tail lamps to the trailer wire harness and remove or install the entire thing in a matter of seconds (hopefully, again it's just an idea). As for choosing the Integra over the hatch: My hatch is the SI and weighs 2400 lbs. stock (or about that), the Integra is 2650-2700 lbs., so I'm taking on 300 lbs. Some of you guys add batteries so the alternator won't have to work, so for me the 300 lbs. difference is worth it from the aerodynamic standpoint. I'm not sure at what speed or how they measure fuel efficiency from the manufacturer, but I don't think they do it at 70 mph, perhaps 55. This is a huge difference in drag and force on the vehicle and as a result fuel usage. Let me put this a different way, my friend had a stock Integra Type R and I raced him with my K20 (more horsepower, better gearing for acceleration and lighter) hatch. I was able to pull on him until about 70-80 mph and then the Integra was even with me and at some point would have passed me due to the aerodynamic factor I'm sure. My car is a 6 speed, his is a 5, mine weighs about 200 lbs. less and probably has about 20-25 hp more. But again, I would probably lose on a racetrack due to the aerodynamics. And yes, as for the lip on my car, it's going away when I swap to the Integra. The Integra already comes with a full size radiator and I'll be installing a block on the front grille. I never thought about this until reading ecomodder (again, this is where you guys come in). As I've read, but never thought about, the radiator was designed to keep the car cool when at the extremes (driving through the desert, pulling a boat and having the A/C on). I never thought about it like that. So, Kpro allows me to see my actual coolant temp and turn my fans on at the temperature I choose. By the way, I tow a 16' box trailer on occasion or a car hauler trailer (yes, with a car on it) with my Civic, so it's my pickup as well as my commuter, so no motorcycle for me, besides, I like having a little steel around me in the elderly state of Florida where the blue hairs roam. So, get this, one day a guy in a stock F350 turbo diesel was racing me in my Civic while I was pulling my flatbed trailer. I beat him in a 0-60 run. Fairly impressive for a Civic. That's where I want the best of all worlds. When I do tow a car (mostly highway) I get about 25 mpg. Show me a pickup that does that. Now, all I do is unhook the trailer and I've got a more eco-friendly vehicle. Doesn't all that make sense? Why should I drive a gas pig 100% of the time when I only need it 10% of the time? Again, I want the best of all worlds.

I'm going to build an under body tray, rear diffuser, grille block, and some aero fittings for my wheels....perhaps even a kammback at some point. I know I'm not going to have the fastest, best handling, fastest stopping, or most fuel efficient car, but I want to push the limit in these areas if I can and make the car better in all areas. Some are contradictions to each other and I have to determine what I'm willing to sacrifice to get where I want to be. As for all of you who have an ecomodder and a pickup (just for the times when you need one), get rid of it. Put a hitch on your ecomodder and buy a 5 X 8 trailer. This is as large as any pickup bed and I'm sure a 70hp Civic or Geo Metro should pull a trailer of this size with no trouble. Now you don't have to insure, maintain or pay for that pickup. Oh, one more question I didn't get answered: do any of you modify your suspension to maintain higher corner speeds there in using less fuel? Shocks, springs, sway bars and bushings? I know you'll lower a vehicle for aerodynamics, but how about making it stick in a turn a little better?

Thanks again for your constructive input.

[RIZOBIZERT]

One more thing I forgot to mention. I'm utilizing the Integra for the ABS as well. I also miss the little luxury of power locks and windows which my Civic doesn't have. I actually have installed the ABS wiring on my hatch thinking I was going to keep it, but that was now wasted time and money. In towing a trailer it's nice to have the ABS at my disposal.