Parallel Hybrids

[P-hack]

Well I am pro-parallel (mostly parallel) until it looks like *I* or any other willing and trained driver (or a glorified automaton) could get better efficiency with a series. I don't see how that is going to happen anytime soon. Infrastructure and batteries (and other EV efficiency improvements) are likely to become significantly better in the same time frame, reducing the need for hybridization significantly.

I can easily see series taking over in production due to the sheer simplicity/cost of it (at a significant efficiency penalty), combined with all the misinformation/rationalizations, but that is not an efficiency enabling technology for people who know what is going on under the hood. But it is also worth noting that even the volt has adopted a partly parallel strategy before going to production.

"For a successful technology," Feynman concluded, "reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by freebeard

IamIan -- awesome screen name.

#1> Will you be looking into that?

#2> I understand Edison2 likes the EPA test cycle.

thanks, I like it too

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#1> I have no source to get the data about the two systems Edison used... I am not aware that they ever released that detail ... or that they ever will.

I have multiple times ... for different projects ... looked into similar issues ... and the data has so far only reinforced my position that which is best ... is determined by the details of the situation ... there is no one ideal ... there is no always better ... etc.

There are good engineering reasons why a freight train does it the way it does it ... for the situation it has ... same for large ships ... Formula 1 cars ... solar race cars ... tanks ... Bulldozers ... The Crawler Transporter ... etc ... etc.


#2> I've also heard similar ... but that isn't good enough ... is that what they did in both cases? ... if it could be verified that in both the 44MPG and the 100MPG results they in both cases firm stuck to the EPA drive cycle ... that would be sufficient data to be able to reconstruct the joule/mile energy use comparison ... but I have no source to be able to do that ... and as far as I know Edison has not released that ... and will not publish that level of detail , about the situation/conditions of the two runs.

I have studied , tested , etc ... how changes in the operation use effect vehicle dynamics and performance ... and it too do far has only served to reinforce my position ... there are reasons why even with the identical car one person can get 160MPG and someone else can get 50MPG ... or why one time a sailboat went 10 mph and another time the same boat went 2 mph... or why people who live in or drive in cities experience different average MPG than those who live on flat open spaces ... etc... etc.

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Originally Posted by P-hack

Well I am pro-parallel (mostly parallel) until it looks like *I* or any other willing and trained driver (or a glorified automaton) could get better efficiency with a series. I don't see how that is going to happen anytime soon. Infrastructure and batteries (and other EV efficiency improvements) are likely to become significantly better in the same time frame, reducing the need for hybridization significantly.

I can easily see series taking over in production due to the sheer simplicity/cost of it (at a significant efficiency penalty), combined with all the misinformation/rationalizations, but that is not an efficiency enabling technology for people who know what is going on under the hood. But it is also worth noting that even the volt has adopted a partly parallel strategy before going to production.

You are welcome to be pro anything you like... and I wish you nothing but the best in efforts for increased efficiency ... whatever path you take.

But , fair warning ... don't expect me to just agree with your claims ... just because you claim something ... or because you say it is so ... I have evidence and reasons for my positions ... To be convincing , to me ... expect to be required to present more/better evidence/references than I already have.

Especial don't expect me to agree about any type of absolute claim ... no matter the subject ... they reek of inaccuracy to me ... including the four claims like that , that it seems you are making above.

I will refrain from picking each one of those apart ... this time ... for the sake of post brevity ... instead I will try the tactic of leaving it ... just with this explanation ... that such types of absolute claims reek of inaccuracy, incorrectness , and errors ... at least to me they do.

Even if I might have agreed to a different ... non-absolute version of that same claim ... I will most of the time disagree with the absolute version of that same claim.

[P-hack]

Same car, gas vs electric+generator, 103-129mpg vs 44 mpg. We enable/encourage laziness with the generator so I have no clue what to tell you about difference in driving style. It's a mash the pedal and go car first and foremost. The car takes 5hp at sdc cruise, you would have to be trying to only get 44mpg.

[P-hack]

granted they didn't take a terribly straight line to being EEs, so if you know of a better existing design, please share. But 44mpg is trivial even to my prius.

[Frank Lee]

The Kuttner clip is well worth watching but I was taken by surprise at the end when he said they'd introduce a hybrid first- this, after earlier doing a great job of explaining the diminishing returns of hybrids as vehicle weight decreases.

[P-hack]

That's the market for ya, mash and go and stop quickly so you can text more car culture (better than hotrod I guess).

[Frank Lee]

Another recurring thought re: Kuttner clip: When he said "reduced weight" I thought "Ford Model T"; "reduced parts count"- "Ford Model T"; "reduced displacement"- "Ford Model T"; "reduced horsepower"- "Ford Model T"; "easy assembly"- "Ford Model T"; "low cost"- "Ford Model T"; "end user serviceability"- "Ford Model T"; "readily customizeable"- "Ford Model T"; "vehicle proportional to user"- "Ford Model T"; "smart/innovative use of materials"- "Ford Model T"; "global platform"- "Ford Model T"...

I've been saying for years that what I want is a modern-day Model T...

[freebeard]

I was looking for a rusto-rod, but let's go with this:

[BarelyAWake]

You're right and I've longed for a T myself, while I don't think there's any offered as turnkey repros - as I'm sure you're aware the parts are all available should you wish to build one: Model T Ford Club of America - Suppliers

However, much as I may love that product of a bygone era... I would like to suggest there's a more modernized rough equivalent, while still DIY street rails share each and every one of the aspects previously listed while providing a better CG, handling, ergonomics, aerodynamics and safety - while they cannot compete with a T's history, if the primary goals are as listed the street rails hold great potential for ecomodder experimentation, even starting with just a basic air cooled boxer, a turnkey 1600cc can be had for around $2000 (lots more or less depending on options), aftermarket VW mechanicals are plentiful & cheap and a chassis like the following averages around $700, though I would strongly recommend the less common mid-engine design;






Jus' some thoughts

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by BarelyAWake

However, much as I may love that product of a bygone era... I would like to suggest there's a more modernized rough equivalent, while still DIY street rails share each and every one of the aspects previously listed while providing a better CG, handling, ergonomics, aerodynamics and safety - while they cannot compete with a T's history, if the primary goals are as listed the street rails hold great potential for ecomodder experimentation, even starting with just a basic air cooled boxer, a turnkey 1600cc can be had for around $2000 (lots more or less depending on options), aftermarket VW mechanicals are plentiful & cheap and a chassis like the following averages around $700, though I would strongly recommend the less common mid-engine design;

Me and my dad, we love those sand-rails. Back here the VW boxer air-cooled engine was mainstream in those vehicles, but nowadays many folks are using the water-cooled EA-827.