Paul and Sabrina's Cheap 3 Phase Inverter (AC Controller) with Field Oriented Control

[Piotrsko]

If you keep everything at the same voltage levels, only a couple of percent for each conversion ac/dc, dc/ac. When you switch to higher voltage at one end, the losses get bigger depending on methodology.

[Quattro64]

Thanks, Is it Volts or Current that I would combine, in parallel?, to increase power when I want to add battery boost? I imagine I'd need to do this prior to the controller(s) via high voltage relays or something. Is this the way I would go about adding boost to a Series Hybrid EV?


I only need to size the ICE HP to the correct sized AC Generator that would then provide converted DC to the Controller/Battery charger to both charge the batteries, preferably on the ground, and drive the AC propeller motor with decent cruising speed/power. The Battery bank would only need to be sized large enough to provide boost power when summed with the motor power or to keep the plane in the air if the motor should fail. I think this is all doable just need to crunch numbers before I start writing up any white paper.

[Quattro64]

Thanks, These are all excellent food for thought. I was inspired about this type of Drive from the work by Siemens, seems they sized one of the Smart Car 3 cylinder Turbo Diesels(by FlyEco) to power their Hybrid Magnus eFusion to a generator, a light one they developed, to burn only 7 liters per hour. I am guessing the 1L Smart Car TD is running at idle to do this. They built in redundancy by using tandem resolvers and multiple controllers. This is a smaller LS Aircraft that is not using their largest E-motors. They also Developed a more powerful aircraft with Pipistrell in Slovenia.


So I thought why not try something similar with a slightly larger plane? A Velocity or similar canard style plane, the new Raptor looks great, a four or five seater.


The GM 1.6 Ecotec engine developed in 2013 is a modern engine, durable, ancillary systems like turbo etc. also durable, I can get one out of a wrecked Cruze for pretty cheap. I don't know what type of kWs it puts out at idle but its torque curve peaks at ~ 2k and the HP curve peaks at ~ 2.9k. This engine even though it puts out 135kWs at peak power is the match for the Smart Car TD in terms of MPG, the Cruze is a heavier car than the Smart Car. This 1.6 TD weights ~ 250lbs. If the fuel savings is similar to what was seen in the Siemens, litres vs gallons per hour, then I would use a far smaller fuel tank than the one I was originally considering, with much less weight.


I believe two of the EMRAX 348 Mid Voltage motors, run at about half their capability, would be enough to taxi and cruise at engine idle once aloft, for any added performance needs(take off) there would be DC battery boost. If the motor stops running then the batteries could provide an hour or so of powered controlled decent. One Run as Generator, the other as AC Motor to drive Prop. They Each weigh ~ 90lbs. If needed, in an emergency, I could also switch the EMRAX generator to run the AC prop EMRAX directly, but according to EMRAX the generator performance might lose as much as 40% without any type of invertor or controller. This would only be needed for a problem with anything in the AC-DC to DC-AC power chain.


For an Inverter I will look at the Volt's, there is also a link earlier in this thread that someone posted about using a Prius inverter, they sell on eBay fairly cheap. So I will look at those options. I imagine Paul's Controller can also be used as an Inverter? I will certainly look at His for the multiple controllers I would want for this.


For the batteries I would strongly consider the newer NMCs. The ones that just came out with the improved anode. They seem to be safe and have a better power to weight ratio than the Lifepo4s. The Chinese are just now starting to manufacture these newer NMCs.

This is all interesting brain storming and it is probably a couple of years before I go any further with this project. I think it is doable, though I'm sure some of my assumptions will fall short, or maybe not? I'll figure this out though before I put any monies aside.


thanks,

Q

[skyking]

to burn only 7 liters per hour. I am guessing the 1L Smart Car TD is running at idle to do this

you are way off. 7 liter ~ 2 gph = 30 mpg @ 60 mph
that would be wide open on a 1 liter!

[Quattro64]

Thanks Guys,

You're helping me out. Skyking you are right, don't know what I was thinking.

Arber you have an APU in mind? I was trying to piece something like an APU together, i.e. the 1.6 Ecotec TD combined with an EMRAX as the Gen. Not cheap but about the same as a good certified aircraft engine. At least the Ecotec can be had for ~ $5k from a wrecked cruise. Regarding its power curve, max torque is at 2k rpm and max HP is at 2.9k rpm, doesn't seem too bad? This gives it around ~135HP. Should be a useful level for an EMRAX 348.

[Quattro64]

Thanks Arber I will look at all of those. I think you're correct about not cluttering Paul's thread anymore. I'll probably start a new thread when the time comes to put this Drive system together. Re-read this one when it is time to buy controllers.

Yes, I was actually aware of all those choices except the R100, I really want to stick to something Diesel, better performance at altitude and It can also run Jet-A. Also, I really like the great MPG(GPH) of the GM Ecotec 1.6.

[Quattro64]

Thanks Arber for the advice on fuel pumps/filters. I will take note of that for this project.

[metallica]

Originally Posted by thingstodo

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

I don't recall a BMS that Paul has designed. He has designed a 500Amp DC controller, a 1200Amp DC Controller, a 1000Amp AC Controller, a Resolver to Encoder converter board, and a DC/DC converter board .. that I know of.

I would suggest using a BMS that has a good track record, of course. The Leaf BMS is good at monitoring from what I read. I have not heard much about the balancing for the Leaf BMS. The Tesla BMS also has a good track record.

Are you recycling surplus batteries? Or building your own? For your first build I would suggest recycling. It simplifies things and you get results a bit quicker ... if you have the room in your vehicle for pre-built packs.

To talk to the boards in each Leaf module, Woltronix has a 'Leaf Pack sniffer 2' that I have read good things about.

For Tesla modules, EVTV has a board that will talk, as master, to the BMS in each Tesla pack.

Those are the most cost effective solutions that I know about.

I don't use a BMS - I bottom balanced my LiFePO4 pack and manually check the cells every 6 months or so, when I've run the pack low. The recycled cells have been rock solid.

My Leaf cells ... I foolishly damaged the boards while taking the pack apart. So I don't have an operable harness or the monitoring portions ... I check them about once a month. The controller on my Polaris Ranger EV won't start up below 42V. That's about 3V per cell. I didn't bottom balance the pack, I top balanced it so that all of the cells hit 4.1V at about the same time.
The voltage on the pack is not as stiff as the LiFePO4 cells, so when the Polaris shuts down, the cell voltage bounces back to about 45V. None of the cells is below 3V when I have let them cool down, before putting them on the charger.

But I'm just a hobbyist. I don't have a highway-capable vehicle running

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated anyone mentioned:
- Paul and Sabrina, I am a happy long-time customer
- Woltronix, I watch and enjoy his videos but have never purchased anything from him
- EVTV, I went to EVCON one year, and am a satisfied, long-term customer

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your welcome, and for your answers Freebeard and Thingstodo, it's very nice of you to have taken time to inform me. I realize that I was wrong when I talked about BMS. I mixed the names, but I was really thinking about engine controllers . I still have a little difficulty with the names of the different components...
But anyway, I read EVTV's opinion on BMS and I will remember that when I have to decide on a system to manage the charge of my batteries, this point deserves to be carefully thought out.

I am interested in electric vehicles for some time, but it is only in the last few weeks that I have been trying to gather information in order to establish the feasibility of a concrete realization (retrofit gasoline -> electric).
One point in particular seems difficult to decide: is it better to opt for a DC motor ? or synchronous AC ? or asynchronous AC ?...

In the current state of my knowledge, and from my first research on the subject, I will be tempted to opt for an asynchronous AC motor, and I saw that Paul & Sabrina have developed one.

So I would be interested to have access to the plans of this controller, as well as to the list of materials and components necessary for its realization. And also have an order of magnitude of its cost price, if anyone has this information.

And if one of you has an opinion or advice on the choice of the type of engine (DC, AC ...) this will interest me a lot too

[metallica]

Originally Posted by thingstodo

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

I don't recall a BMS that Paul has designed. He has designed a 500Amp DC controller, a 1200Amp DC Controller, a 1000Amp AC Controller, a Resolver to Encoder converter board, and a DC/DC converter board .. that I know of.

I would suggest using a BMS that has a good track record, of course. The Leaf BMS is good at monitoring from what I read. I have not heard much about the balancing for the Leaf BMS. The Tesla BMS also has a good track record.

Are you recycling surplus batteries? Or building your own? For your first build I would suggest recycling. It simplifies things and you get results a bit quicker ... if you have the room in your vehicle for pre-built packs.

To talk to the boards in each Leaf module, Woltronix has a 'Leaf Pack sniffer 2' that I have read good things about.

For Tesla modules, EVTV has a board that will talk, as master, to the BMS in each Tesla pack.

Those are the most cost effective solutions that I know about.

I don't use a BMS - I bottom balanced my LiFePO4 pack and manually check the cells every 6 months or so, when I've run the pack low. The recycled cells have been rock solid.

My Leaf cells ... I foolishly damaged the boards while taking the pack apart. So I don't have an operable harness or the monitoring portions ... I check them about once a month. The controller on my Polaris Ranger EV won't start up below 42V. That's about 3V per cell. I didn't bottom balance the pack, I top balanced it so that all of the cells hit 4.1V at about the same time.
The voltage on the pack is not as stiff as the LiFePO4 cells, so when the Polaris shuts down, the cell voltage bounces back to about 45V. None of the cells is below 3V when I have let them cool down, before putting them on the charger.

But I'm just a hobbyist. I don't have a highway-capable vehicle running

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated anyone mentioned:
- Paul and Sabrina, I am a happy long-time customer
- Woltronix, I watch and enjoy his videos but have never purchased anything from him
- EVTV, I went to EVCON one year, and am a satisfied, long-term customer

Hi everybody,

Thank you for your answers to my question Thingstodo and Freebeard. And sorry to delay responding. I have had a quite busy schedule this week and in addition I lost the answer I gave you 3 days ago on the website...

So... in fact I used a wrong term when I talked about "BMS". It was actually the "AC Contoler" I wanted to talk about... It must be believed that I had the BMS in mind when I wrote my post, and I mixed the terms...

Anyway, I read the information from EVTV you mentionned. I found these reflections on load balancing issues interesting, and I will keep these issues in mind when I have to choose a solution for my future system.

I'm studying how I could achieve a vehicle retrofit from gasoline to electricity. I would like to start this project in a few months (begin of 2020). For now, I try to identify all the necessary components and associated prices, and get an idea of ​​the total cost of the operation.

Regarding the motor, I envisage to use a three-phase asynchronous AC motor, with a nominal power of about 25 KW, with the possibility of overloading it for a few minutes at maybe 35 KW or a little more.

In this respect, the Paul & Sabrina's AC controller should be a good choice. So I am looking for the plans and diagrams of this controller, as well as the complete BOM. I also thought, derive a less powerful version, so less expensive, since an intensity of 250A would seem to be enough for my project

Can you tell me where I can get this information? Having never realized this kind of transformation, I would also be very interested in any advice or additional remark.

[Piotrsko]

Not to be negative, but, you want a 1960 style VW motor's worth of power to propel your car. A golf cart uses that power level anymore.