Paul & Sabrina's Cheap EV Conversion

[MPaulHolmes]

Well, hopefully I fry my transmission no sooner than October or November, so I can pay a proper machinist to find the center of the next one. I figure that given winging it, the probability that it is within 0.002 inches of center is somewhat low. This will be an interesting experiment on how long it lasts when you slop a piece of crap together.

What's that box that has all the wire hooked to it on the left side (facing forward) below the passenger seat? I think I'm going to move all the wiring out from under there, since the battery box is going there, and batteries weigh a lot.

[MetroMPG]

Re motor heat: the ForkenSwift motor body hardly gets warm, never mind hot. The hottest spot is the end bearing.

[bennelson]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Re motor heat: the ForkenSwift motor body hardly gets warm, never mind hot.

Of course that's only a 48V system!

[MPaulHolmes]

Originally Posted by bennelson

Of course that's only a 48V system!

Ya... Us 72's don't like to hang with the 48's. I think I'll start a gang. To get in, you have to bust a cap in the headlight of a 48v vehicle.

[MPaulHolmes]

I took off the motor and adapter plate to put some stuff on the bolts so it'll be tight on there. I forgot what the liquid stuff is called. Anyway, I ran the motor quite a bit before taking it off the transmission and I wanted to check the transmission seal thing for leaks. So far so good. The thing I thought was a leak wasn't. It was much easier getting the motor back on the car with the floor jack. Also, I tightened each 5/16" bolt to 25 ft-pounds, since the specs say I can do 28. Also, I tightened the 5/8" bolts to 55 ft-pounds, since the specs say I can do like 85, and I didn't want to squish the transmission. It is WAY tighter now. I could jump up and down on that motor and I don't think it would do a thing. Before, I thought it was tight, but each bolt was only like 5 ft-pounds! I was using a little wrench before, so I thought it was pretty solid. haha. Now, every spacer is FLAT against each face.

[MPaulHolmes]

I took off the decroded piece of crap front brakes and put in new stuff up there. It ain't so bad! Now, I just need to bleed the front and back one more time, just to be safe, and adjust the back ones, and all mechanical stuff will sort of be fixed I think.

The whole centering issue is bothering me. Maybe I'll wait for it to make noises, and then I'll remove both the transmission and motor, and do something about it. I don't know what though. haha!

[metromizer]

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

I took off the decroded piece of crap front brakes and put in new stuff up there. It ain't so bad! Now, I just need to bleed the front and back one more time, just to be safe, and adjust the back ones, and all mechanical stuff will sort of be fixed I think.!

I was going to offer this earlier, but I thought I read you already rebuilt both front and rear brakes? i've been through this on a few vw's that had been sitting, the latest was a month ago, my '62 bug that has been sitting in the backyard since 2000.

You probably already tackled this, but in case you have not, here goes:
What goes bad is the wheel brake cylinders freeze up from corrosion. The DOT3 brake fluid absorbs water, the moisture droplets collect and fall to the bottom, start to rust the inside of the cylinder bores, and generally freeze up. If you catch it early, you just remove all four wheel cylinders and hand hone them with a brake cylinder hone in a drill motor. Sometimes the pistons break up while trying to get them apart, or the corrosion pits are too deep and the hone doesn't clean up the bore enough, in which case $20ea at your import auto supply store cures the problem.

Drums: All I do with rusty drum surfaces is hand sand 'em with 80gt. sand paper. It doesn't repair anything previously wrong (worn out from being serverely grooved, out of round, oversized) but it returns them to about the same condition they were in the day it was parked.

I also pull the brake shoe adjuster star wheels and nuts apart, wire brush off the gunk and corrosion, lightly grease them, and re-instal. If the detent springs are broken off, you need to replace them. Be sure to torque the rear drums to 215+ ft lbs and use a new cotter pin. I've had a drum and wheel fall off before... it was a bad day!

The rubber brake lines go bad, resulting in one or more wheels locking up int he brake on position, or refusing to brake at all. Luckily they are cheap to replace.

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

The whole centering issue is bothering me. Maybe I'll wait for it to make noises, and then I'll remove both the transmission and motor, and do something about it. I don't know what though. haha!

Centering any adapter is really a precision machinist, but hey, sometimes a guy does what he has to do. If the consesus within the EV community is to just get it close and don't worry about it, then the risk is small, go for it.

On the other hand, if I were making my own plate, was going to take the time to make a high mileage EV and didn't have machine tools or the skills, I might contract with a small machine shop. I'd take them my plate, transaxle, and electric motor, and have them mount them for me. The factory VW bellhousing has been machined, about 5mm deep, counterbore. This pretty large diameter counterbore is concentric with the input shaft bearing, VW uses that to (center) the engine to the transaxle input shaft. If it were me, I might have my my adater plate precision machined do the same.

A good resource for VW adapters is Kennedy Engineered Products in Palmdale, CA. They sell all sorts of ICE adapters for VW transaxles and could likely build you one to fit your electric motor, or sell you a blank plate with a centered hole already in it. The old man who started the company is a kick to talk to. good luck with your cool project!

[MPaulHolmes]

You were exactly right about the brake problem. In every case, it was the left side of the brake cylinder that was frozen solid. JC Whitney sold them for 11.99, so I just bought 4 new ones. Also, almost all of the brake shoe asbestos stuff just fell right off the metal. The how to keep your VW Alive for the idiot had the same suggestions that you did, so, I think I did it right.

I saw the counterbore you were talking about. It's a sunken-in circle cut into the transmission bell housing. It has a diameter of about 11 inches or something like that. I would like to buy the machining equipment so I could do all this stuff myself. I suppose a mill along with a rotary table could be used to cut out a cylindrical disk that could be attached (JB Weld???) to a larger sheet of metal that would later be bolted to the bell housing. Then a hole could be cut in those 2 sheets that is concentric with the counterbore hole, with a diameter that is identical to the diameter of the cylindrical extrusion that is a part of the motor body that is concentric with the motor shaft. Set the plate over the motor shaft extruding cylinder. Next drill the transmission mounting holes by placing the transmission over the other side of the plate. It should slide right on, given the counterbore fitting over the cylinder that was cut and JB welded to the bigger plate. Now everything is aligned. Next, spraypaint holes for the transmission mounting, and drill them out.

BAM! I just need a small lathe, and a mill + rotary table combo that can handle cutting circles that are about 11.5 or 12 inches in diameter. Anyone out there know if a basic harbor freight mill and rotary table can do that???

Next, I could use a single lovejoy coupler half with the appropriate motor shaft diameter and keyway size. Chop off the 3 teeth. Then, I can just widen the other side's inner diameter with the baby lathe (can lathes widen holes AND shrink outer diameters??) until the clutch hub piece slides into it. Weld it on to the cylinder, and I'm done!

Thank you Metromizer, you provided the missing pieces for me. I think it makes sense to me now what I need.

Do all transmissions have a counterbore???

[metromizer]

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

You were exactly right about the brake problem. In every case... frozen solid. JC Whitney...The how to keep your VW Alive for the idiot...

Be careful what you buy from Whitney. In most cases they sell the very lowest price product they can get their hands on. Sometime it is the lowest quality part they can find, as well. For some applications, that's just fine, for others, maybe not-so-much. I personally stick with brands a little up-market if I have a choice. if you haven't assembled the wheel cylinders yet, take them apart, one by one and inspect each bore. Casting pourosity can leave a pits that tear up the seal, I've seen many Brazilian-made brake parts with that problem, so I always check out the new ones first. The idiot book is awesome! Glad you discovered it. You also want the Bently publishing factory manual for your year VW to go with that. It's funny, in the past, I had suggested the "idiot book" to others, but some get a little insulted

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

I saw the counterbore you were talking about. It's a sunken-in circle cut into the transmission bell housing. It has a diameter of about 11 inches or something like that. I would like to buy the machining equipment so I could do all this stuff myself. I suppose a mill along with a rotary table could be used to cut out a cylindrical disk that could be attached (JB Weld???) to a larger sheet of metal that would later be bolted to the bell housing. Then a hole could be cut in those 2 sheets that is concentric with the counterbore hole, with a diameter that is identical to the diameter of the cylindrical extrusion that is a part of the motor body that is concentric with the motor shaft. Set the plate over the motor shaft extruding cylinder. Next drill the transmission mounting holes by placing the transmission over the other side of the plate. It should slide right on, given the counterbore fitting over the cylinder that was cut and JB welded to the bigger plate. Now everything is aligned. Next, spraypaint holes for the transmission mounting, and drill them out

I like the way you think, but IMO you need to decide weather or not you want to invest heaps of time, money, garage space and brain power to start your own mini-machine shop in your garage. If your goal is to get this EV on the road, and the machinary (and skill developed to run them) is a means to an limited end, I would re-think that.

The Habor Fright machines are light duty hobby machines at best... I am being kind. BTW do buy a fair amount of tools and supplies from them, but I pick and choose (jumper cables, dolly, cart, allen wrenches, air die grinders, etc).

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

Thank you Metromizer, you provided the missing pieces for me. I think it makes sense to me now what I need.

no problem. PM me and we talk on the phone

Originally Posted by MPaulHolmes

Do all transmissions have a counterbore???

All aircooled VW's do, those genius engineers located the engine that way. Others brands I've bothered to look at use two dowel pins on the mounting face.

[MPaulHolmes]

I think I'll get a big dang mill and rotary table from Harbor freight. I checked out a few mills today. Lots of room for huge adapter plates. The costs were between $800 and $1100. They were singular in their purpose, and monstrous. Maybe I wouldn't need a lathe if I could just widen the diameter of a lovejoy by a hair. Less than a millimeter is enough, since you can choose a diameter that is closest to the outer diameter of the clutch hub spline.