Poll - Nuclear plant in your town

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I enjoyed how the WSJ piece glossed over the mutations of things non-human.

Would you care to explain what exactly is wrong with mutations?

Before you get too deep, consider that mutation is part of what drives evolution, and that without it Darwin's "endless forms most beautiful" would have stuck at their simple beginning.

Mutation is another of those scare words, like radiation, used to jerk the strings of those who derive their understanding of science from '60s B movies about giant mutant ants taking over the world.

PS: For the likely majority of readers who derive some or all of their ancestry from Europe, and have blonde, brown, or red hair, guess what? We're all mutants! Light-colored hair (and eyes) derives from a mutation in the MC1R gene that's been dated to about 11,000 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond#E..._of_blond_hair

[NachtRitter]

Petroleum pollution causes mutations in simple life-forms as well... and yet there is no knee-jerk reaction to shut down every distillery, every gas station, every vehicle with a fuel tank because there is a possibility that an accident will cause mutations in simple life-forms.

Ever heard of or seen the following?

WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.

There are thousands of chemicals on the list... most I don't recognize, but couple I do... Diesel Engine Exhaust and Gasoline Engine Exhaust. Ever been exposed to that? Yes? Should we shut down all transportation because of the risk?

Granted, there is no x number of years of half life, but who needs to worry about the half life when you're exposed to it all the time anyway?!?

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Would you care to explain what exactly is wrong with mutations?

Before you get too deep, consider that mutation is part of what drives evolution, and that without it Darwin's "endless forms most beautiful" would have stuck at their simple beginning.

Mutations aren't bad and are needed, as you mentioned. But the way evolution works is that there are a few small mutation every now and then - a slightly longer leg or a smaller tail - and if it works then the gene slowly spreads out, generation after generation. The key is that the speed at which mutations occur is as slow as changes in the environment.

With radiation, or some other form of pollution, suddenly the mutations in the species' genomes may effect a large percent of the population. Maybe these mutations give an edge to surviving, but more often they are either lethal or negatively influence reproduction.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

Petroleum pollution causes mutations in simple life-forms as well...

Sure, that's why it shouldn't get spilled ...

There are thousands of chemicals on the list... most I don't recognize, but couple I do... Diesel Engine Exhaust and Gasoline Engine Exhaust.

Diesel exhaust falls in the range of asbestos.

As with asbestos, it has taken us a while to realise the dangers of what happens to be a very useful product, and as with asbestos, in the meantime, we have all enjoyed our diesels ...

DPFs don't solve that issue - on the contrary.


From the days when asbestos was still very useful stuff :

Hot Poppa's on an escort carrier.

Should we shut down all transportation because of the risk?

No, but we can easily move away from diesels.

And not start to make gas engines that produce PM (as with direct injection).


As for mutations, the sudden, gross mutations usually won't make it .
Some mutations linger undetected - and have allowed people to survive the plague or Aids.

[Frank Lee]

Huh- living in high radiation areas and genetic mutations are good things- well I learnt sumthin today!

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Huh- living in high radiation areas and genetic mutations are good things- well I learnt sumthin today!

Well, if you did learn something, that's a good thing. I suspect that you're just trying to be sarcastic, though, and so I suggest you look at comparative health in areas of high natural radiation. Denver is mentioned in the WSJ article I linked to. Ramsar, Iran has still higher natural radiation, and no detectable adverse health effects have been discovered. Indeed, there are some claims that the natives of this area are healthier than those living in areas with "normal" background radiation levels.

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Sure, that's why it shouldn't get spilled ...

Shouldn't, but does... relatively often.

Originally Posted by euromodder

Diesel exhaust falls in the range of asbestos.
... but we can easily move away from diesels.

I believe it will be about as easy to move away from diesels as it has been to move away from tobacco... is tobacco gone yet?

Originally Posted by euromodder

And not start to make gas engines that produce PM (as with direct injection).

Since gasoline engine exhaust was put on the list of "CHEMICALS KNOWN TO THE STATE TO CAUSE CANCER OR REPRODUCTIVE TOXICITY" in 1990, I don't believe they were only referring to gas engines which have direct injection.

We live in a dangerous world, where our own advances in technology expose us on a daily basis to chemicals and products which increase the risk of cancer or birth defects or other many other illnesses that we'd not encountered before the technologies were developed. I'm not saying any of that is good for us, but I am saying the risk of cancer or birth defects due to radiation is not higher than the risk from what we encounter daily. I know that having a nuclear plant in my town would not be more risky (and probably much less risky) than having a oil refinery or an oil rig in my town. Heck, speaking of asbestos, a few years back our asbestos exposure skyrocketed when it was discovered that the earth movers preparing a housing development had uncovered a vein containing friable asbestos, causing quite a bit to become airborne...

Of course, prior to the technology, the world was still a dangerous place to live, but that was due to a whole different set of risks...

It all boils down to numbers, folks. Even though radiation exposure sounds more scary than diesel or gasoline exhaust exposure, the fact is you are more likely to be exposed to diesel or gasoline exhaust on a regular basis than you are to be exposed to above-normal radiation on a regular basis.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Humans are a bad breed to check for mutations due to our slow reproduction rate.

And to evaluate the safety of nuclear energy for humans without regard to the larger ecological context that sustains human life is completely unacceptably inadequate.

And here is a helluva line from the last paragraph: "The great tragedy of the Fukushima accident is that Japan shut down all its nuclear reactors." No, the great tragedy of the accident is the devastation it avoidably visited upon those people. The political "fallout" was a just consequence for the industry paid for the devastating failure of one of its facilities that it repeatedly insisted was in no danger.

Close the SONGS plant, which based on the same GE design as Fukushima and is also along the coast, beside active faults.

[Frank Lee]

Since exposure to radiation has health benefits, I'm going to petition that radioactive isotopes be added to the municipal water supply. To heck with fluoride and cavities- I want more protection from cancer!

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

And to evaluate the safety of nuclear energy for humans without regard to the larger ecological context that sustains human life is completely unacceptably inadequate.

I completely agree! But once again, I have to refer you to the great base of information which shows that the ecosystems of the Chernobyl exclusion zone (the so-called "Dead Zone", though it's anything but) are far, far healthier than they were before the accident.

You also need to consider that shutting down a nuclear plant will mean that much more coal will be strip-mined, natural gas extracted by fracking, wild rivers dammed to produce hydroelectric power, or even miles of desert ecosystem destroyed for solar plants.