Ptero gets kicked off CleanMPG for dissing the Volt

[Chuck.]

Originally Posted by FXSTi

Full disclosure first: I am a regular poster on Cleanmpg.
When I look at Ptero's posts on there it doesn't show him as a banned user, yet looking around the site I see others who have been banned have "Banned User" under their name. Curious.

vBulletin and most other forum software allows the staff to kick members off without broadcasting they have been banned...it's actually good policy. I mean - dead bodies are generally covered and quietly removed, aren't they?

[Ptero]

Originally Posted by Chuck.

Having said all that, Ptero - you're thread over there reminded me of you as a bull reacting to the Volt as a red cape...you're hatred over that car was not expressed very rationally. I might agree it's not a Tesla, or GM does not have the best management, but they way you demonized that car in a forum of hybrid and EV enthusiasts had a predictable outcome. And that was all you talked about.

Chuck, if you look back - and I have no idea if the posts are still up - you will discover that "all I ever talked about" included many early posts about getting maximum mileage out of my Smart Car. There was quite a lengthy series of posts about driving from California to Chicago with a trailer behind the Smart and picking up a 250 cc Wildfire motorcycle car. I also talked about the Aptera I planned to buy and this is what got me interested in hybrids.

But when I researched well-to-wheels efficiency in hybrids and ran the numbers, little petroleum cars kept coming out on top. Then when I looked deeper, I found a lot of hidden subsidies that skewed the stated efficiency numbers in favor of hybrids. It is impossible to mine lithium in Bolivia, haul it to the Pacific coast of South America, transport it by ship to South Korea, make it into batteries, ship those batteries to Detroit, install and run them in hybrid cars for 7 to 10 years, perform end-of-life recycling and still be able to justify ANY mpg gain. At its foundation, it was a political social engineering subsidy transferring wealth from those who did not have hybrids to those who did.

The argument was not well-received in the nest of true-believers at CleanMPG. That was around the time when the Volt batteries started bursting into flames and burning down cars and houses. I was suspicious of the fox investigating the disappearing chickens - and that did not go over well on the forum, either. Finally, I realized no one wanted to hear my arguments and I just started laughing at them. Go ahead and blame me for that. I can only take so much bull**** from people before I blow a fuse. No apologies.

[Chuck.]

Sorry if I overlooked posts on your Smart Car.

The snippet below is what I've seen on the Dust-to-Dust "study" to assert the Prius is more environmentally damaging than any other car. Aren't there thousands of products sourced from several continents like this with globalization? This argument looks like cherry-picking.

Originally Posted by Ptero

But when I researched well-to-wheels efficiency in hybrids and ran the numbers, little petroleum cars kept coming out on top. Then when I looked deeper, I found a lot of hidden subsidies that skewed the stated efficiency numbers in favor of hybrids. It is impossible to mine lithium in Bolivia, haul it to the Pacific coast of South America, transport it by ship to South Korea, make it into batteries, ship those batteries to Detroit, install and run them in hybrid cars for 7 to 10 years, perform end-of-life recycling and still be able to justify ANY mpg gain. At its foundation, it was a political social engineering subsidy transferring wealth from those who did not have hybrids to those who did.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Ptero

...I realized no one wanted to hear my arguments and I just started laughing at them. Go ahead and blame me for that. I can only take so much bull**** from people before I blow a fuse. No apologies.

... and that sounds like why you were banned. I haven't been to the other forum, but I do know that if you turn from attacking an idea to attacking individuals, you will be banned.

Your message is an important one, but there is no other appropriate way to get your message across than to present supporting evidence.

[Ptero]

I was just naive and posting in the wrong place. Most people want an echo chamber, not supporting evidence, and true believers disregard anything contrary to their views.

[niky]

Words like that... true believer, fanboy, etcetera... verge on ad hominem attacks. On boards where I moderate, we allow a little more leeway, but if you keep berating others, you get voted off the island.

There was a time sniping got so bad that we banned the word fanboy itself. You can make very convincing arguments without resorting to such loaded words.

[P-hack]

Well there is ptero, but I've dealt with WG too, he can be a little penis-ey, cus I'm perfect of course

[gone-ot]

TACK -- the social communitative ability to tell some "...to go to Hades..." in such a way that they "...look forward..." to the trip.

[Ptero]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

TACK -- the social communitative ability to tell some "...to go to Hades..." in such a way that they "...look forward..." to the trip.

You mean "tact." When I realized political correctness was destroying my country, I said to hell with it. Back to being forthright and saying exactly what I think. People who don't like it can go **** themselves.

[niky]

Tact simply means being able to disagree with facts rather than emotion.

Which is what makes a more convincing argument for "swing voters" who've not made up their minds, one way or another.