Ptero gets kicked off CleanMPG for dissing the Volt

[Ptero]

Hello. I guess I'm back until I get kicked off Ecomodder for thinking the Chevy Volt sucks eggs. The true believers over at Wayne Gerdes' CleanMPG.com finally had enough of my opinion of the Chevy Volt and kicked me off "forever".

"You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never"

It appears that for one to have differing opinions about hybrids, especially plug-in hybrids - and especially the Chevy Volt - is heretical on some high-mileage forums. If one wants to point out that the well-to-wheels argument for battery/petroleum cars drops them below pure high-mileage petroleum cars in lifetime fuel costs, hordes of outraged EV true believers attack and eventually pummel to death any contrary opinion.

And if one wants to point out the physics barriers in battery tech that require state-of-the-art batteries to exist at the edge of a dangerous envelope, watch out. True believers don't want to hear that stuff.

Then, of course, there is the decreasing output that many early adopters have experienced. Or even worse, the devastating total "bricking" of a new EV, which some, like myself (with a GEM purchased from a "Big-3" dealer), have experienced. This kind of experience can lead to disillusionment, suspicion and intense analysis.

I have always believed that pure electrics have a role - but a very limited, local one. I have yet to identify a cost effective well-to-wheels argument for ANY lithium battery powered or lithium battery assisted vehicle.

Ptero
Smart Car with Trailer: CA to IL - CleanMPG Forums

[jamesqf]

Opinions are fine (with me, anyway - I'm not a moderator). Opinions that can't be backed up by evidence are just so much hot air, though, and opinions that run contrary to observed data put you out on the lunatic fringe.

[basjoos]

I've had a few run-ins over there myself (and some deleted postings) when I've mentioned that my 20 year old non-hybrid blows away the highway mileage of any new hybrid currently sold and mentioned aeromods that would improve the highway mileage of some of these new cars. Their founder has transformed himself into an automotive journalist and to continue in his new profession, must do what he can (by not pissing off the auto companies) in order to maintain access (auto shows, test drives, etc.) to the newest products of the automotive industry. It simply wouldn't do to have a 20 year old car showing up the latest and greatest from Detroit, Tokyo, and Seoul or point out how the latest and greatest could be improved on. So he is reduced to saying how unsafe my car is compared to a modern car and deleting any of my postings that aren't favorable to modern cars.

[WD40]

As with most families and forums .. you are entitled to any opinions you want as long as they don't differ from the majority and or you keep them to yourself.
If you don't then you will suffer the wrath of "Forum Rage" or worse "Being Banned"
Funny thing is that eco driving has totally killed any road rage I used to suffer from, and I would have assumed it would be the same for others, but from what I have been reading in most forums including here, Forum Rage is in full swing ..
Its safer then road rage so its all good?
Its just my opinion ..

[redpoint5]

This reinforces my observation that everyone is "religious" in one way or another, and people tend to be intolerant of anything that opposes their view.

This is the only efficiency forum I'm on, and I enjoy it because the moderators are very tolerant of a wide range of opinions. Heck, they have even tolerated my off-topic diversions into philosophy where I ask the deeper question of "what's the point". Challenging the foundational premise of the forum is heresy, but the mods have graciously allowed it.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Opinions are fine (with me, anyway - I'm not a moderator). Opinions that can't be backed up by evidence are just so much hot air, though, and opinions that run contrary to observed data put you out on the lunatic fringe.

Well said. This is more or less the way I hope things work around here.

(However, if you dis a Geo Metro/Pontiac Firefly for ANY reason, you're outta here!)

[max_frontal_area]

the worst thing that will happen here is you having to survive a bunch of bickering.
then you submit the "proof" everyone keeps asking for, suddenly there are no more replies - as if they had been severed by a sharp butchers knife.

new ideas and alternative thinking is in great demand here. welcome!

p.s. beware of trolls! soak your space suit in scotchguard over night.
you DON'T want to get any of that on you or you will slowly but surely
begin thinking just like them.

...............edit...................
the volt and fiat supposedly saved the american auto industry. yet neither is being bought and volt production has even been throttled. yet somehow the
industry rebounded - despite consumers being more careful with their money since the depression of the 30s :-) now imagine someone built a telsa that is affordable, efficient and with great ROI. ppl would and most importantly could afford to buy it. other manufacturers would be forced to follow suit in order to keep from sucking up more taxpayers $$, just to survive. things would start making sense and a failing industry might have a chance of rebounding.

you said bricks, did you mean aerodynamically speaking? see the thing you don't understand is the fact that degreed cosmetics designers are exempt to the laws of fliud dynamics.
oh, and talking about design, DAMN, what happend to the Leaf??? Did Ghosn accidentally step on a toothpaste tube?

one thing i learned, while researching the idea to ADD electric drive to an already existing ICE car with the design intent of making it more efficient
than what you originally started out with, all of the components of the vehicle itself (weight and aero specifically), ICE and drive sytem as well electric drive system would have to be very efficient for starters then need to be optimized to work harmoniously.

Attempting to do that with an SUV - lunacy!

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Challenging the foundational premise of the forum is heresy, but the mods have graciously allowed it.

(Or they just missed that thread! )

(Actually, I really did miss that one. Got a link? Some ecomodder-existential navel-gazing sounds interesting.)

[max_frontal_area]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

This reinforces my observation that everyone is "religious" in one way or another, and people tend to be intolerant of anything that opposes their view.

almost all. it seems to me it is just too much of an adventure to step out of your comfort zone into the unknown especially during an era where orchestration
effects almost but likely all parts of our "lives". look at television. the "reality" phenomenon is over a decade old now and shows no signs of slowing.
ppl are genuinely hooked. how can you escape that. it is like quitting a drug addiction, providing u want to quit?!

[user removed]

Originally Posted by basjoos

I've had a few run-ins over there myself (and some deleted postings) when I've mentioned that my 20 year old non-hybrid blows away the highway mileage of any new hybrid currently sold and mentioned aeromods that would improve the highway mileage of some of these new cars. Their founder has transformed himself into an automotive journalist and to continue in his new profession, must do what he can (by not pissing off the auto companies) in order to maintain access (auto shows, test drives, etc.) to the newest products of the automotive industry. It simply wouldn't do to have a 20 year old car showing up the latest and greatest from Detroit, Tokyo, and Seoul or point out how the latest and greatest could be improved on. So he is reduced to saying how unsafe my car is compared to a modern car and deleting any of my postings that aren't favorable to modern cars.

This post basically sums up my experience with that site.

regards
Mech