Ptero gets kicked off CleanMPG for dissing the Volt

[user removed]

I have been a member for years, but do not visit or post anymore. Wayne basically trashed my design saying it would just leak all over the place. I guess his agenda prevented him from looking at it close enough to see that all of the high pressure circuits are contained within the low pressure circuits. I think controlling leakage at pressures below 60 PSI is well within the capabilities of modern sealing technology, especially considering hydraulics have been an integral part of auto tech for over 50 years.

A couple of other members, who are also members here decided to pile on to the ignorance wagon, which made me wonder why they would so quickly reject innovation with such short sighted opinions.

I guess the self appointed auto journalist has been absorbed into the clique of the manufacturers cronies and his loyalty to the cause has been replaced by his loyalty to the compensator's. I know he raves on about BMWs like they are some kind of wonder machine, while trashing another vehicle that is more efficient. Smacks of an agenda to me.

regards
Mech

[TheEnemy]

Old Mech: You mean they would poo poo my thoughts of a diesel electric hydraulic and maybe solar series hybrid rock crawler?

[Nevyn]

Sadly I have to agree that Wayne has certainly seemed to shift focus. Granted, it's always been about driving style over there. However, it's gotten progressively less and less friendly with regards to conversations about modding older vehicles. It seem that only two things are accepted over there - competition level MPG driving, and buying a new, more fuel efficient car.

[3-Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ptero

....It appears that for one to have differing opinions about hybrids, especially plug-in hybrids - and especially the Chevy Volt - is heretical on some high-mileage forums. If one wants to point out that the well-to-wheels argument for battery/petroleum cars drops them below pure high-mileage petroleum cars in lifetime fuel costs, hordes of outraged EV true believers attack and eventually pummel to death any contrary opinion.....

I think it's great to offer a less than positive opinion about the Volt.

I happen to like it.

However if do make a slam of it, offer some valid reasons why you feel this way.

Also offer an alternative that would work better as a replacement for the Volt.

But I do oppose slamming something just for the sake of it.

Slam something, then offer something better.

Every dark cloud should have a silver lining, even if it's a small one!

Jim.

[ecomodded]

Perhaps dissing any hybrid on any fuel economy type forum will always give one negative attention. I think my thread on "the cost of ownership of the Chevy Volt" did not exactly boost my credibility..

[basjoos]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

I have been a member for years, but do not visit or post anymore. Wayne basically trashed my design saying it would just leak all over the place. I guess his agenda prevented him from looking at it close enough to see that all of the high pressure circuits are contained within the low pressure circuits. I think controlling leakage at pressures below 60 PSI is well within the capabilities of modern sealing technology, especially considering hydraulics have been an integral part of auto tech for over 50 years.

A couple of other members, who are also members here decided to pile on to the ignorance wagon, which made me wonder why they would so quickly reject innovation with such short sighted opinions.

I guess the self appointed auto journalist has been absorbed into the clique of the manufacturers cronies and his loyalty to the cause has been replaced by his loyalty to the compensator's. I know he raves on about BMWs like they are some kind of wonder machine, while trashing another vehicle that is more efficient. Smacks of an agenda to me.

regards
Mech

If the hardware doesn't come via a dealer's showroom, it isn't really welcomed over there. Grill blocks and aftermarket engine block heaters is about the limit. I've noticed the tolerance for backyard mods over there has progressively diminished through the years.

[payne171]

There is buying fuel economy and there is working for it. EM.com is definitely about working for it. I have limited experience with cleanmpg.com, but it seems they are about buying it. I want to bash them, but we need them to buy cost-inefficient ecocars new so we can buy cost-efficient used ecomobiles. Sure, the Volt is shaky now, but if/when they are available used at less than half the price, we will be big fans. With that said, overall I like the Volt, but GM took a moonshot when a Cruze plug in hybrid would have gotten close enough to the same results at a better price point. But of course, THEN it wouldn't have qualified for a $7500 gov't stimulus.

[Marc F.]

I am hoping this discussion brings a subject to light. We see it all the time any more.

Bias.

News stations, politicians, supposed scientists and us in the forums. All have an idea and ignore facts to the contrary or distort the facts they state to fit their view.

I want reported, repeatable, proven facts, I can make up my own mind, I dont need anyone to give me my opinion.

What happen to the objective view? Have a theory, test it and shows the results, good or bad. We try to do it here with A-B-A testing, why cant that carry over in to discussions?

I hope it can.

**********************************************

last night I was foggy when I wrote this, it seems harsh today, what I ment by it was if you say something is crap or stinks, tell us why its crap or stinks. Add verified facts.

I wonder why my foot-in-mouth-itis carried over to the keyboard? :/

[Grant-53]

Wow! This is why selling anything can be so hard. Some folks have been known to claim they were going East when the sun was setting in front of them. Hence Mr. Bloom's book "The Closing of the American Mind" or the fairy tale "The Emperor's New Clothes". More often than not we try to bluff our way through life afraid that we will be found out for being less competant than those around us. Maybe this is part of the reason the divorce rate has climbed, women can only be fooled so long.
Hydraulic systems operating at 4,000 psi are used regularly in construction equipment and most good auto part stores can make double steel braided hoses that are rated for 2,000 psi. Municipal water pressure is 60 psi.
The scientific method has taken a beating at the hands of political correctness. Why, so self styled philosopher-kings can justify controlling the rest of us. As an old preacher friend from Liverpool England once told me, "My old car goes right fast. Some of the young fellows try to pass me but I don't always let them."

[Chuck.]

This might get a few responses, esp. since I was a very active moderator there at the start of this (but left for other things before Ptero was banned.)

The basic problem at CleanMPG is it's almost impossible to have a forum with lots of members yet have the majority of them hard-core believers. The founder chose to be even less tolerant than many of the hypermiling enthusiasts, and ran off newbies on the edge in spite of other members wishing to get them to turn around with more diplomatic means.

Yet the founder had this pipe dream CleanMPG would be his second career and be the only source of revenue he needs. He was envious of PriusChat, but oblivious their traffic had a lot of differing opinions and skeptics he would not tolerate, nor did he attempt to develop webmaster skills like the PC founder. Why I and a former webmaster helping him left is he chose to open up political threads to generate activity (i.e. money) It's been my first-hand experience that if you promote the discussion of religion, politics, and other hot topics, a few will flamethrow and degrade the forum environment - back door trolling. So I left for that and other things in my life.

CleanMPG had a great start, but squandered it. He should have written a book on hypermiling by 2008 when it was a hot topic...it will be years before pain at the pump will rise enough people will take interest in such a book like back then. Some of us made suggestions on how the founder could start a business and it was on deaf ears - he was intent that CleanMPG traffic would bring in thousands of dollars a month.

It did not help he had too much of this "you are for me or against me" mentality - way too competitive with other forums and made too many enemies. He did deal with some unsavory people, but still he alienated too many.


Having said all that, Ptero - you're thread over there reminded me of you as a bull reacting to the Volt as a red cape...you're hatred over that car was not expressed very rationally. I might agree it's not a Tesla, or GM does not have the best management, but they way you demonized that car in a forum of hybrid and EV enthusiasts had a predictable outcome. And that was all you talked about.