A Quest for 35mpg (Subaru Outback Limited Sedan 2.5L auto)

[brucey]

Zerohour: My wheels have been covered for months and I've towed 1000 lb trailer with a motorcycle on it through mountains without any sign of brake fade. My car is a lot heavier than yours (Unless you put in as much extra sound deaden-er as I have) and my hills are a wee bit steeper.

It'll be fine. (: Those rear brakes aren't even vented to begin with.

Skirts are coming along nicely. Do you have a scangauge yet to measure the difference?

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by brucey

What's the opposite of hot rod? Eco-Rod?

Ben and I actually kicked around "ecorodder.com" as a name for the forum Ben didn't get it though - too old school. :P

[MetroMPG]

Enjoying the progress on your car Zerohour. (Love the ecomodder toaster.)

[Zerohour]

I drive nothing but hills and highways lol I live in Pennsylvania where the eastern mountain range in the US runs right through all the north east States. There really aren't flat roads around here. Even the highways are usually a small include or slow decline. Plus theres lots of areas with stop/go traffic. And just because I'm ecomodding the car doesn't mean I don't get the need for speed everyone once and a while. I once took a set of 50K tires down to bald corners in 4,000 miles. :-)

Just some more notes:

On the toaster:

I know how to wire the toasters together. I'm hoping the four outside walls of the toaster will produce enough heat for my idea. I am currently in need of a barbecue grill (square charcoal kind). My idea is to wire the toaster coils into the top (closing) half the charcoal grill. I can then use the original grill surface to place the mounting which will hold the sheets of plastic. With some luck I'll be able to the first ever thermal forming toaster grill! hahaha Theres much to be done on this project. And for the effort, wheel skirts should have more yield. I'm going to reserve this project for the fall months.

@ Brucey:

Nope no scan gauge, but I do have a vacuum gauge. It definitely lets me keep myself in check. I keep catching myself thinking I'm light on the throttle, but I can tell by the gauge I lift slightly more.

[Zerohour]

Just throwing this into the thread. Its some additional answers to questions others may have:

Q: Do you use all tape? Or combination of tape and foil?

A: You can use the foil two ways. Yes you can do all tape. It will work. I like use sections of regular aluminium foil. Nothing special. I get the cheapest brand at Walmart!

Q: Do you use any release agents?

A: I do not use any release agent. I have in the paste tried to use objects as molds, and I used carnuba wax, It worked with minimal success. I think on a larger, flat surface it would do okay, but if you working with a disposable underbody (cardboard) the release isn't as important.

Q: What about wrinkles in the aluminum foil?

As for the wrinkles, yes the resin may get in there. Yes it will make it worse to remove. Its not impossible though. Flaten them out the best you can. If you have a "bad" spot, tape over it! :-) I've come to accept that spending more money on the foil tape is worth it. I use to try to conserve the hell out of the tape rolls and eventually just gave in. Trust me, Its worth to use more tape!

also when Using foil over large areas, you can "tact" down the surface in a very clever way. While covering the surface using the tip of a scissors to nip a hole in the foil. Then use a small square of tape over the hole. The hole lets the tape stick to both the foil and the cardboard backing! This is great because over large areas you'll end up picking up slack with the brushing the resin into the fiberglass. This only compounds the ripple on the end product. So tacting it down help reduce the ripple and yield less sanding when trying to smooth the surface!

Q: How do you cut/trim the fiberglass once it has hardened?

A: To cut the fiberglass after hardening, I use a dremel with a cut-off wheel. Theres not much else that I know of that will give you as much control as the dremel. I've thought about using the air cut-off wheel but its just too much torque and the blade is too wide to get good cuts in the corners. A WORD OF CAUTION!!! THERE IS A DANGER TO USING THE DREMEL! If you use a dremel around the edge of fiberglass you NEED to remove any strands of fiberglass or excess material that was not soaked in resin. This can be done with a pair of scissors. Its important to do this because it go back to a general rule of rotating objects and loose material. The fiber can and will wrap around the dremel head. And you won't have the time nor hand strength to stop it! This could result in a bad issue with our project (cut into a good part) or even worse, you may be going to the ER to have a finger stitched up. And as always, wear a dust mask with cutting the fiberglass!

And with the above being said, always use precaution when working with fiberglass! Use personal protective equipment! I know it adds to the cost of the project...BUT...its not worth your health!

[Zerohour]

While posting up those other answers, I kind of figured this would be a good spot to post another little trick I use. If you've never fiberglass before this probably will save you alot of time/effort/money.

I fiberglass using a brush, but not one, but THREE brushes (and a 4th on reserve). They do not have to be expensive brushes either. I use the cheap $1.00 2" brushes available at any walmart, lowes, hardware store etc.

Here's the deal of how this works:
Brush #1
Brush #2
Brush #3
Dish of Acetone #A
Dish of Acetone #B
5-6 mixing dishes for mixing resin
paper towels

Round 1:
Brush #1, one new/clean dish, Dish A & B are empty. When finished rinse #1 in A, place dish aside to dry
Round 2:
Brush #2, one new/clean dish, Dish A has #1, Dish B empty. When finish place brush #2 in Dish A, rinse out brush #1 dry on paper towel, place in Dish B, place dish aside to dry
Round 3:
Brush #3, one new clean dish, Dish A has #2, Dish B has #1. When finished place Brush #3 in Dish A, Rinse and dry #2 on a paper towel then place in Dish B, Remove Brush #1 and dry off. place dish aside to dry
Round 4:
Reuse Brush #1, one new/clean dish, Dish A has #3, Dish B has #2. When finished brush one goes back in to Dish A again....repeat cycle was above.

As your mixing dishes dry, (if you need to get past 4,5, or 6 dishes) you can take a break from the fumes and release the hardened fiberglass by flexing the container.

This method works pretty good for me! Hopefully it make sense to someone else cause it probably a little confusing in words, but you're basically cycling the brushes from very dirty dish to cleaner dish and it helps to keep them clean and reusable! I have brushes that are up to a dozen rotations now. And if I were cleaning them I'd probably be up to $40 just in brushes! Of course Acetone is mildly expensive, but it still outweighs the cost of using new brushes all the time.

[NachtRitter]

Thank you for the tips!!

Another question... you mentioned using glass dishes for mixing the resin and the hardener... Do you clean that out with the acetone as well? Or (once it's gelled up to the point where you can't use anymore) do you wait for the resin to semi-harden and then 'scoop' it out of the dish? Or is it actually easy enough to get out of the dish after it's fully hardened that you don't worry about it 'til the next day (or whenever you need to use the dish again)?

[Zerohour]

For me it kinda depends on what I'm working on. With a large piece like the wheel skirt, I only had 4 dishes, and it was taking me 6 dishes per side. So I was cleaning them out in a semi-gelled state. I prefer to let them dry and break free the hardened piece. There is less smell and less stickiness. :-p

If the resin is still semi-liquid and you're done with the dish, you can clean it out with a paper towel.

I do not normally use acetone on the dishes. If I do, its usually to clean the outside. They get sticky spots and/or fiber-resins accumulate on the dish. So the next time you use it, your hand gets sticky from the get go. This usually makes handling new fiberglass more difficult (cause it sticks to you, no the surface your fiberglassing!).

I know I've seen videos on youtube about different fiberglassing techniques. I'll have to see if I can find one tonight or just make one myself.

But now its off to work and dodging school bus traffic :-/

[NachtRitter]

Alright... one last question (for now)...

You mention putting three layers of fiberglass on for strength... I know there are 2 types of resin; 1 for the final layer and one for in-between layers. Do you use these 2 types, or do you use the finishing type only and just sand between layers?

[Zerohour]

I do not use a "top coat" or Gel Coat. Gel coats are used for parts when they are produced in a mold. I guess I could use a gel coat on the top of the resin layers, but It would require additional sanding. It would basically make it rework to put a gel coat on top. I do do a "top coat" over the fiberglass layers, but I just layer up resin to fill in the low spots and then sand it down.

Speaking of which...I said I wasn't going to sand these smooth, but somehow I was out in the garage again and found myself sanding away anyway. :crazy:

Went down the time and layered up a coat of resin. Was actually pretty smooth. May go a little better than the bumper block...except that I have two wheels skirts, and one wheel skirt has more surface area than the bumperblock. :-p I've learned a few tricks to push this along this time though. I tried to reserve myself with the bumper block, but in reality, you could make the fiberglass 1/4" thick and it still wouldn't weigh much. This time around I'm filling in lower spots with additional fiber-patches first. This will quickly build up the low spots, compared to the straight resin I used on the bumper block.

But sadly my Tyvex suit needs to be replaced. The crotch is ripped out and I've walked a hole in the shoe portion. Not bad considering I've got probably several full days in that sucker. (all the sanding/fiberglassing from the bumper block, previous fiberglass work, and painting).