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Old 09-26-2016, 03:01 PM   #121 (permalink)
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...nobody will believe that "electrons with Techron" is a better product.
Want to place a small bet on that?

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The cell phone charging analogy applies here. There is a lack of universal standard at the moment, but eventually the market will demand a universal specification.
Err... Where's the evidence for a universal, or even common, cell phone charging standard? Let's even go beyond cell phones, and look at portable devices using supposed-to-be-standard USB connectors. I have half a dozen such devices - cell phones, cameras, music players, &c - and every single one of them uses a different connector on the device.

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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
Changing your mindset about driving an EV, comes down to getting used to charging at home. It saves a LOT of time, never having to visit a gas station.
But remember, we're not talking about your local driving, but about longer trips where "range anxiety" actually comes into play. To take a common scenario hereabouts, have perhaps tens of thousands of people driving their EVs from the Bay Area to Tahoe ski areas on a Friday - a trip which I don't think can be done without charging even in a Tesla, given the elevation change &c. How many chargers do you need in places like Auburn to handle this?

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Old 09-26-2016, 07:28 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Want to place a small bet on that?
Yeah, I'd loose that one. People be crazy.

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Err... Where's the evidence for a universal, or even common, cell phone charging standard? Let's even go beyond cell phones, and look at portable devices using supposed-to-be-standard USB connectors. I have half a dozen such devices - cell phones, cameras, music players, &c - and every single one of them uses a different connector on the device.
True, there will probably always be a couple different "standards".

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To take a common scenario hereabouts, have perhaps tens of thousands of people driving their EVs from the Bay Area to Tahoe ski areas on a Friday - a trip which I don't think can be done without charging even in a Tesla, given the elevation change &c. How many chargers do you need in places like Auburn to handle this?
Those multi-car families will then choose to drive their Tahoe to Tahoe instead of their daily EV commuter.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:25 PM   #123 (permalink)
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When your EV has a shorter range than the trip you need to do, you have to either plan where to charge, or take another car, or take public transportation.

You cannot drive it farther than its range, unless you can charge it - which is obvious; and it means you don't have range "anxiety". Being anxious is being unsure - and my point still stands: once you get used to driving an EV, you stop having anxiety.

Do you have anxiety about driving an ICE farther than you can go on on tank?

Same goes for driving an EV - you know how far you can go. You know where the charging stations are - and you drive where you can.

What is the issue?
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:24 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Once you buy one, it's not anxiety but a fact of life. we know. But in the showroom anxiety about it hurts sales of EVs.
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:36 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Being anxious is being unsure - and my point still stands: once you get used to driving an EV, you stop having anxiety.
No, because the exact range is going to depend on conditions. The trip that is within range on a nice, calm day might not be if you run in to a snow storm with headwinds, and have to use the heater & defroster a lot.

In any case, you seem to be giving the term "range anxiety" a different meaning than I do, or I think most people do. It's not worrying about the range of the EV you own on your usual trips: it's whether that EV you're considering buying really has the range you need, and will continue to have it as the battery ages.

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Do you have anxiety about driving an ICE farther than you can go on on tank?
Only when I see the "Next Gas 160 Miles" sign :-) But that's because I know I can easily refill the tank in a couple of minutes. (Not to mention the Insight's ~700 mile range :-))

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Same goes for driving an EV - you know how far you can go. You know where the charging stations are - and you drive where you can.
But to reiterate: 1) In a lot of places charging stations aren't; 2) Charging takes a lot longer than filling a gas tank; 3) If I can't drive where I want to go, rather than where there happen to be charging stations, what's the point of driving?

What is the issue?[/QUOTE]
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Old 09-28-2016, 01:22 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Right - conditions affect ALL vehicles. And as you gain experience, that means you no longer have anxiety about it.

There is Plugshare.com to find charging stations.

Because you might assume that you can alwasy find a gas station - you might well leave yourself less than a 160 mile cushion.

And again, if you want to drive somewhere in an EV - you LOOK on Plugshare to SEE where stations might be, and if they are not there - then you don't drive there.

EV's are just starting to happen. You may not be able to move to an EV until there are more charging stations. But many more people can drive EV's even though they don't know it, now.

EV's are 2-3 TIMES more efficient than ICE's. ICE's will never be anywhere near that efficient. We can make electricity ourselves, from renewable energy sources - and fossil fuels are necessarily finite.

Humans MUST stop using ANY fossil fuels in a very short time - like a decade or two. Get used to it.
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Old 09-28-2016, 01:52 PM   #127 (permalink)
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If I could fill up on gas at home, I would never visit a gas station en route.

I would even wonder if it made sense to replace the gas tank with a smaller one.
Don't need to carry the extra weight around, don't want to fill it half and have that much air over the gas all the time either.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:30 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Humans MUST stop using ANY fossil fuels in a very short time - like a decade or two. Get used to it.
Entirely different question. For instance, a plug-in hybrid using biofuels - alcohol, biodiesel, &c - gets you there without the current problems of EVs.

We might also think about what's really gained by having two cars, an EV for local/commuting and a gasser for long trips, vs one fuel-efficient vehicle for everything. Take those Bay Area skiers I mentioned, who might drive 250 miles during the work week, and make a 500 mile trip pretty much every weekend. With one Prius getting 50 mpg, that's 25 gallons per week. With an EV for local, and a 15 mpg SUV for the trips, that's 33 gallons per week.
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:05 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Longer range EV's are here, and the end of the ICE-age is in sight.

Climate change will see to that.
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Old 10-01-2016, 11:54 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Gas burns, but 288v will kill anyone.

I often drive a hundred miles a day in my HX and today I am driving 165 miles to help out Mom, with another 165 on Monday, my normal work route, and while I am up there, all errands will be much further apart.

The only time I ever go in the convenience store is if I am out of water or need to take my chances in their bathroom.

Fifteen minute charges only work for Teslas and we are not discussing those, because they are the only ones with ranges comparable to ICE cars.

I EoC regularly. My Civic is not very loud. With the engine off I do not think "Gee! This is so much better!"

I honestly do not notice over my Classical music, which I obviously do not play very loudly.

Who plays Classical loudly?

I am pretty sure that my sixteen year-old car drives just as far as it did when new. How far will electric cars go after 208,000 miles without replacing major components?

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