Range-related BEV aero thought experiment

[Isaac Zachary]

This is what most people think when you start talking about efficiency:



I, on the other hand, am influenced by my own concept of efficiency, and as a result I think SUV's stink big time. They are not anywhere near as practical as people make them out, and they use way too much fuel to move anything. Plus they cost more. They are a waste in my opinion.

[freebeard]

Wish I'd had a camera when I saw a black SUV perched on it's windshield header and the front of the hood, all alone in the middle of an intersection.

'Doesn't matter.'

[Isaac Zachary]

For the record, when I say SUV I also mean crossover, at least in the sense of a crossover utility vehicle. The El Camino was an awesome crossover back in it's day.

I also don't see how the Aptera is impractical. Costwise it'll be the cheapest EV in the USA starting at $26,000, compared to the next runner up the Mini SE at $31,000 with half the range. Even if you consider the Aptera a motorcycle, the closes motorcycle in terms of range I've found is the Damon HyperSport HS/Premier, starting at $32,000, and it doesn't offer heat and air-conditioning.

[H-Man]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

No, because we're primarily wired as social creatures, with a subordinate ability to understand physics. The reason society kills the scientists and philosophers is because they dared mention that facts don't care about your feelings.

We would have to find the genes responsible for taking an interest in how things work, probably at the expense of having an interest in social norms and roles, and genetically engineer humans with a disposition towards those attributes. Probably a recipe for disaster, as time has selected humans to generally be interested in social networks over comprehending the nature of reality.
... my wife once left the oven door open on a winter day after baking, saying her mom taught her that trick to utilize the heat. I asked her where she thought the heat went if you don't let it out. She has a masters degree in science, and I almost failed high school.

Trust me, the amount of stupid stuff that I've heard engineers say to me as a trans woman, I'm convinced that most people with STEM degrees don't have 'the knack' or the ability to examine beliefs critically and only have the degree because they got external help (My gender comes into play here because I shorted out a few people's brains early in transition and it pushed a few people's beliefs to the breaking point. People get very mad when you make them realize that their feelings are not facts.)

I'll give you another highlight of people that should know better: I've had a mechanical engineer tell me that a heatpump outputting more heat than you supply it with electrical energy violates the laws of thermodynamics. Had another engineer insisting that because nobody's bothered testing past the 3 year mark for a biological process that by all rights should take a decade, that it means that it's impossible for anything to happen after the 3 year mark... the kicker is that real world data existed directly contradicting them.


I wish every car had on its fuel economy sticker the power or fuel consumption at 75 MPH. Hell, give me the cd and cdA too. It would further incentivize gas cars to have gears optimized for real world freeway speeds and aero packages to match, and electric cars might have 2 speed transmissions and better aero.

Instead, we have engineers that work with aerodynamics for a living acting like it's okay to have something that is shaped like a brick.

I did number crunching on my chevy volt and if I drop the cd a fair bit, I should be able to squeeze 60 or 70 miles at speeds that are good for 30-40 miles and this does not account for Peukert's law.

Less power turned into heat in the battery, more power turned into motion at lower current draws. If I flog my battery hard I get 12kWh out of it, if I baby it I get 14kWh.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

This is what most people think when you start talking about efficiency:

Ah, Scott Adams, The Far Side cartoonist. He's my favorite.

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I also don't see how the Aptera is impractical. Costwise it'll be the cheapest EV in the USA starting at $26,000...

The Chevy Bolt was going for $24k, and it had 4 wheels and is super great, and people weren't stampeding for them.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The Chevy Bolt was going for $24k, and it had 4 wheels and is super great, and people weren't stampeding for them.

Ya, well, that's kind of my point. It seems that the majority of people have this concept that they need a tall, boxy SUV (or crossover, but everyone calls them all SUV's) or a pickup that guzzles lots of gas in order to fit into society. If you put something out there that's strays from that general concept then people won't buy it.

The Aptera is perhaps a dead concept. The Bolt, dead and if they resurrect it next year it will probably die again. A person buying a car these days has two choices, an SUV (or crossover, but don't tell the customer it's not a true SUV) or a pickup.

Sure, there are a few sedans and a couple of hatchbacks out there, but those are a dying breed. The Malibu, Versa, Mirage and and many more are on the chopping block. The Corolla is slowly becoming the Corolla Cross.

The car is basically taking the course of the cellphone. Remember when we had all those cool phones back in the late 90's and early 2000's? Now all cellphones are the same. Sure, some might be a bit faster than others, that's about it. They all have the same layout, screen on this side, camera on that side, flat like a Pop-Tart.

Phones have also lost a lot of their useful functionality and practicality. Just a few months after I got this phone (about 6 years ago) a storm came in and blew out all services except broadcast stations. Yet I couldn't tune in to the local FM stations on this phone because it's the first one I've had without FM radio. I hate this phone with all my guts, yet I don't want to trade it in if it still works. It makes phone calls, that's about all I use it for. I don't take pictures with it. I still use my 35mm film camera for that. I don't surf the web nor social media on it. Yet the new version of this phone is double what I paid, some $800.

Cars are becoming the same marshmallow on wheels that cost more than what most Americans can afford. They have lots of space, that's it. They move your junk around, and mostly use lots of fuel to move just single individuals. I don't cram my vehicle with stuff and don't need an SUV (or crossover). If I need to move furniture I pull my trailer or rent/borrow a truck. I'm getting sick of having so much stuff anyway. I'd like to reduce everything I own down to a backpack or two.

[aerohead]

When consumers stop their behavior of borrowing money to get their hands on them, automakers will top producing them.
PS, I'm presently experiencing an actual 166.9-mpg-e in the BOLT with my commuting driving strategy. Running on 'sunlight.'
Mary Barra made a great mistake in my favor by green-lighting the BOLT production. I'm eternally grateful to her.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Wish I'd had a camera when I saw a black SUV perched on it's windshield header and the front of the hood, all alone in the middle of an intersection.

'Doesn't matter.'

You might find North Texas amusing. During our black-ice events, about all you see, upside-down in the bar ditches besides the road, are the CUVs, SUVs. and 'off-road' pickups the television ads purport to be unconquerable in foul weather.

[freebeard]

Ah, Scott Adams, The Far Side cartoonist. He's my favorite.

?? I thought he did Garfield?

[Phase]

My theory is everyone gets SUVs because of the obesity epidemic. Average American won’t comfortable fit in a normal size car without squishing up against the center console, side of door and steering wheel. Even when I got my Ioniq, the number one compliant in every review or forum was it being “ hard” to get in and out of and being 5 and a half inches of ground clearance. Now I’m a little chubby, but I’ve never had any issues with my knees or back getting in and out of it. Maybe cuz of my age? Idk. Sure it’s not as tall as an suv and you have to “ sit down” into the car, but it’s never bothered me and it’s worth the 60 mpg