Renewable Energy Is The Future

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

There are 2 different potential energies involved. The height is the main but there is energy in the velocity of water as well.

I know what you mean, but height and velocity are the same "energies".

The height difference sets the velocity of water, either by the speed the stream flows (no dam), or by the pressure of the water at the turbine (dam).

All potential energy depends only the volume of water and the height differential.

The reason a dam is more efficient than turbines in a river is that more height differential can be harvested. Flow and power generation can also be modified as needed on a dam, whereas an open river delivers whatever the flow happens to be at the time.

Getting back to the thread title, it seems renewables are inevitable unless nuclear power really catches on.

As an aside, available renewable energy should be going up since the globe is warming. That means more wind, more rain, etc.

[Hersbird]

I agree, technically one energy is potential and the other is kinetic. The potential can be converted to kenetic and the kinetic back to potential.

My main point is all rivers have the energy there to be tapped even without a reservoir. The reservoir is there for other reasons and to concentrate the power and make it consistent. A turbine directly in the open channel will make power without any elevation change at that point.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

There are 2 different potential energies involved. The height is the main but there is energy in the velocity of water as well.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gravity+vortex+watermill

Originally Posted by ibid

I remember the first time I encountered a ram pump lifting water without any power input.

Trompe
A trompe is a water-powered air compressor, commonly used before the advent of the electric-powered compressor. A trompe is somewhat like an airlift pump working in reverse.
More at Wikipedia

[Piotrsko]

Originally Posted by freebeard

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gravity+vortex+watermill

Speaking of which, how did that project end up?

[freebeard]

I presume I must have mentioned that at some point, that I don't recall. I gathered some parts for a gravity watermill for my friends that live upriver. They have year-round water flow in a creek that feeds the EWEB power canal that parallels the McKenzie River.

I collected a doghouse and cut a hole in the top for the collector and a 1hp Fisher-Paykel washing machine motor for the generator. It's undersized (I believe) but I thought it would be sufficient to collect data for the first year.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VRUAA...m5y/s-l300.jpg
Two outboard motor propellers to choose from that would need the tips trimmed back to fit the downpipe. A 25ft 1" hex bar for a driveshaft.

Missing were the downpipe and some way to attach it to their broken-down dam that exists with about 8ft of head.

They've never recovered from their Trump Derangement Syndrome and blame me for their unhappiness even though I support Tulsi Gabbard. So I hauled all the parts (save the 25ft hex bar) up and left them, and wished them luck.

I still consider them friends (for decades) but they can't be in a room with me without getting angry. So sad.

[redpoint5]

How many cubic feet (or gallons) / min flow did you have on that 8ft head height? I'd be interested to see how the whole thing could work.

I once calculated our part of the Little Pudding creek at 500 gallons/min by crudely capturing a portion of the flow in a 5 gallon bucket, and then multiplying that by the width the whole creek spilled over the flat concrete waterway. That works out to about 1 cubic foot per second. With a 1ft head height, it's not very feasible, especially considering I'd need to build on top of the county owned bridge infrastructure.

Then there was an underground spring that could potentially have about 30ft of head height if I collected at the beginning of our property and it exited at the creek. It had a measly 20 GPM flow though.

Often I'd paddle the North Santiam River and see a stream feeding into it from quite some height and get a little envious that I was not the property owner.

My aunt gets very heated when talking politics, so I like to get her wound up from time to time, and enjoy sharing my most reasonable yet least socially accepted thoughts just to get a reaction. She's coming over for Super Bowl.

Anyhow freebeard, I'll still consider you a friend, even when you start feelin' the Bern.

[Hersbird]

The best way to capture a small stream with height is a water wheel. If you have 20 feet to work with you put the water in a series of buckets and just let their weight turn the wheel. If you have say 10 full 1 gallon buckets on a 10' arm that's 800 ft lbs of torque. If your stream flows 20 gallons per minute you could turn it at 2 rpm. That's .3hp or 224 watts. Not great but 24 hrs 365 days that's 2 megawatts of otherwise unused energy. I suppose that torque is why it was used for grinding things for thousands of years. No reduction gears needed.

[redpoint5]

I was wanting to go the high pressure route and exploit the pelton effect. 30 ft of head is only 15 PSI, so I guess that's not very high pressure. Then there's all the losses.

I came to the conclusion none of it was worth doing. Would have been neat as an experiment / hobby though.

My dad still entertains the idea of creating a pond from the spring. That would be a good way to get head height, but building the dam seems a doozy and would flood a decent amount of land. Probably more useful as a source of irrigation water for the 30 acres of currently unirrigated farmland.

[freebeard]

How many cubic feet (or gallons) / min flow did you have on that 8ft head height? I'd be interested to see how the whole thing could work.

Those were the questions. I'd looked at the cross section of the flow through the spillway and watched things float downstream, but I forget the result (>1hp?). I thought an actual measurement is called for.

The whole thing full of running water would weigh a ton. The supporting structure would need some thought.

Now the 25ft hex bar is reserved for a windmill. There is an unused utility pole about 20ft high next to my housing pod.

Anyhow freebeard, I'll still consider you a friend, even when you start feelin' the Bern.

As if. I was sympathetic toward Bernie in 2016, but am convinced that there are dark powers gathered behind him. Gabbard 2024.

[redpoint5]

Wind was my next interest on my parents / grandparents (they are adjacent) properties. My grandparents are at the top of a hill which is probably a good spot for wind. When I get the gumption, I'd like to climb the tallest fir tree there and attach a weather station to the top to gather data. Might need a solar panel to power it since running power probably won't be feasible, and I'm not climbing a tree every week to change batteries.

Anyone have recommendations for a weather station? Ideally one without a display. I just want something that connects to the internet via WiFi with either a webpage I can access, or a phone app to review the data.