Robocars, just like any car on California roads

[P-hack]

well that is the liberty part, the freedom to go wherever and whenever. Airline schedules and etc stress me out (affect me in a negative way you might say). And they don't have kids/animals/trees appearing in front of them.

But even then, an airplane autopilot would gladly fly into another airplane. It is a glorified cruise control. There are still humans watching things fairly closely.

perfect safety is never leaving the house, stuff happens.

It would seem there is no limit to liberty that can be constrained in the name of safety if nobody objects.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by P-hack

well that is the liberty part, the freedom to go wherever and whenever.

an airplane autopilot would gladly fly into another airplane. It is a glorified cruise control. There are still humans watching things fairly closely.

perfect safety is never leaving the house, stuff happens.

It would seem there is no limit to liberty that can be constrained in the name of safety if nobody objects.

I can't think of anything more liberating than having the freedom to take a nap, read a book, watch TV, catch up on work, have a conversation, plan an ecomod... instead of having to drive to your destination. The average American spends 37,935 hours driving in their lifetime, or 1,580 full days of their life. It amounts to 11% of our waking hours. With automated driving, we could learn a new language instead of practicing sign language on those that cut us off in stop-and-go-traffic. Liberty is being liberated from the mundane. Freedom is having a choice of activities to engage in.

Autopilot is much more than glorified cruise control, and it would not run airplanes into each other. The sky has lanes of travel separated by 1000 ft of altitude. The autopilot does a much better job of maintaining the proper lane of travel than a human can. Autoland systems also exist and are activated when visibility is poor. The automated system performs the most difficult part of flying with more precision than a human can. Then there are UAVs...

Why the resistance to automating a monotonous task that requires no creativity? I think of the Amish and their arbitrary cutoff for acceptance of technology. Technology doesn't force us into being lazy, it frees us to pursue more creative endeavors.

Pointing out the shortcomings of the current prototype technology to discredit its use in the future is foolish. It's like pointing out that the ENIAC computer is the size of a room and stating that people will never have computers and they are of little practical use.

[jamesqf]

Why assume that all cars would be automated, or would have the self-driving mode enabled at all times? Seems to me it actually enlarges ones options (= more freedom), as for instance when I had to drive over the Sierra to the Bay Area, I could engage the auto-drive for the last half (boring freeways, even when not congested), and take a nap.

[redpoint5]

Technology is being introduced in a natural progression that builds upon existing technology.

Electric steering is already standard on cars because it lowers fuel consumption and cost while increasing reliability. If the car already has the means to steer itself, then adding Lane Keep Assist isn't such a huge leap. Cars already have electronic ABS which modulates braking force, so it isn't a huge leap to add automatic emergency braking. If you have automatic emergency braking, then you already have the sensors needed to maintain a safe distance when cruise control is engaged. That one is nearly free to implement.

Cars start by getting equipment that reduces cost and increases safety and reliability, and they evolve from merely increasing safety, to offloading tasks traditionally done by the driver.

Most cars now have throttle by wire, so pressing on the accelerator is merely an input to the computer telling it that we want to burn more fuel. The computer takes that suggestion into consideration of what it actually does. When I mash the pedal to the floor in snow, the car limits the power output to only the amount afforded by the grip of my tires. To my extreme dismay, my car is much better at providing maximum acceleration and grip in slippery conditions than the best I can manage with traction control turned off. I simply cannot react to a slipping tire as quickly as a computer can.

In the very near future, insurance companies will be giving drastic discounts to those that own vehicles that can emergency stop, or avoid merging into an occupied space. It will cost more to drive a fully manual vehicle than to operate one with automatic systems.

If people saw how dangerously oblivious my grandpa is when driving, you would all want him driving a vehicle that can take over to avoid a collision. He drives an off-road version of the Chevy S10 and has been in at least 3 at fault accidents in the last decade of driving. He can pass the DMV driving and vision tests, so he is safe to be on the streets according to the law.

[Frank Lee]

Drastic discounts like for air bags and ABS?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Drastic discounts like for air bags and ABS?

The Ford Model T sold for $850 in 1909. Adjusted for inflation, the real cost of the car was $22,000. Just look at the comfort, safety, reliability, speed, entertainment, performance, etc has increased by leveraging technology. Your $22,000 can buy a lot more of everything than in most any other time in the past.

The trend of technology is that the cost of operation becomes cheaper as time progresses. It might cost more in the short-term to have ABS and airbags, but in the long-term things such as insurance premiums and costs associated with repairing your vehicle or your face reduce.

Cars of the future will not have seat-belts or airbags; they won't be necessary expenses when collisions are so infrequent. Crumple zones will also be unnecessary, so the vehicle will have more freedom to take on an aerodynamic and utilitarian shape.

[darcane]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I can't think of anything more liberating than having the freedom to take a nap, read a book, watch TV, catch up on work, have a conversation, plan an ecomod... instead of having to drive to your destination. The average American spends 37,935 hours driving in their lifetime, or 1,580 full days of their life. It amounts to 11% of our waking hours. With automated driving, we could learn a new language instead of practicing sign language on those that cut us off in stop-and-go-traffic. Liberty is being liberated from the mundane. Freedom is having a choice of activities to engage in.

I have the freedom to take a nap, read a book, watch TV, catch up on work, have a conversation, or plan an ecomod during my commute now.

I choose not to take the train though, I enjoy driving.

[redpoint5]

I, too, enjoy driving. It's the commuting that sucks. Too many maniacs and idiots out there

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Drastic discounts like for air bags and ABS?

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The Ford Model T sold for $850 in 1909. Adjusted for inflation, the real cost of the car was $22,000. Just look at the comfort, safety, reliability, speed, entertainment, performance, etc has increased by leveraging technology. Your $22,000 can buy a lot more of everything than in most any other time in the past.

The trend of technology is that the cost of operation becomes cheaper as time progresses. It might cost more in the short-term to have ABS and airbags, but in the long-term things such as insurance premiums and costs associated with repairing your vehicle or your face reduce.

Cars of the future will not have seat-belts or airbags; they won't be necessary expenses when collisions are so infrequent. Crumple zones will also be unnecessary, so the vehicle will have more freedom to take on an aerodynamic and utilitarian shape.

I think Frank Lee was implying that the "drastic [insurance] discounts" for ABS and airbags...aren't that drastic (my discount for ABS amounts to 2.3% of total premium, and there is no discount available for airbags. I'm currently with one of the top three largest auto insurers); along with insinuating that future discounts for self-driving cars will be similarly, um, drastic.

[Frank Lee]

^That

It might cost more in the short-term to have ABS and airbags, but in the long-term things such as insurance premiums and costs associated with repairing your vehicle or your face reduce.

But that- not so much.