Robocars, just like any car on California roads

[Grant-53]

I used the term 'rash' to describe two fatal train crossing accidents and the high speed derailment within a short period of weeks. This is a statistical anomaly. While I worked in the commuter rail industry for several years I cannot verify that any onboard systems currently in use would detect a vehicle on the tracks. My conversations with the NTSB after the NYC crash concerned the flammability of the train cars. The programming firm Orthstar is based nearby and they do a good bit of train system work. For a train to top 100 mph is unusual since the routes are too curving on the East coast runs.

There are technical questions and there are social issues in deploying wide spread automation. Value management comes into play. Hersbird, thank you for your service. I have a cousin who served on nuke boats. P-hack take a pill. My anti anxiety meds last about 5.5 hours. I live in NY state so I have first hand experience with scumbag politicians. The Feds can't prosecute them fast enough. What works well with CA 405 traffic will not work with our local deer population. Radar can detect a car in the same lane. Omnidirectional infrared sensors could detect an animal but even the deer doesn't know what it will do next. In the end people will decide what level of automation works for them as in the multiple traction control systems on high powered motorcycles.

[IamIan]

What Eco-Modding can one not do on an autonomous car that one can do on a non-autonomous car ?

Well .. All the 'nuts & bolts' stuff , Aerodynamics , weight , engine tweaking , etc ... all that 'nuts and bolts' type of eco-modding would be about the same.

The only difference I see to the 'Nuts & Bolts' ... would be that mods could be more accurately tested and quantified afterwards with an autonomous driving car ... far more so than a manual human could possibly perform ... The computer would be more able to repeatably drive / accelerate / etc ... exactly the same way to the millisecond ... 10 tests, 100 test .. etc.

IF the driving style is significantly user configurable .. like fonts and colors on my computer .. or the plethora of smart phone apps .. IF if reaches that level .. than being able to tweak my driving style algorithm .. I would than be able to tweak my driving style more precisely and more quantitatively and more consistently than would be possible manually .. and the fruits / benefits of such eco-modding tweaking / apps .. could be uploaded and shared to others .. on some type of common meeting site where people (who own autonomous driving cars) trade eco-modding data with other such eco-modder interested people.

IF on the other hand .. it's more like one only has 2 or 3 approved driving style choices .. and choose a destination .. than that makes driving more like being a passenger on a plane , bus , train , etc .. That would have reduced Eco-Modding capacity in the drive methods / algorithm part.

[P-hack]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

"safety" is just a nice byproduct.

One of the obvious objections is that people are stating this as fact. And it really remains to be seen, and it is likely incredibly conditional (i.e. only "safe" on closed courses with other robot cars, and/or during peacetime).

If they actually sort out a computer that can compete with a human driver, I wouldn't think that encryption would be a reliable mechanism any more.

Even chess computers take a long time to sort out all the possible moves, and that is a dead simple 8x8 2d grid.

Google has reached a point where they can literally tilt the table on public opinion, on any subject, just by tweaking search results, and they clearly want infinitely more data. To be anything but sceptical at this point is to be willfully ignorant.

All the assurances in the world are completely useless speculation. You have to string a lot of assumptions together just to make a "maybe it could possibly be ecomodder related" case. Though it may be even more likely to run into things if you reduce the drag with no way of telling it (insert more speculation here).

wild speculation, very unicorn-like. This is a complete clusterf*ck of naivete, capitalization, fearmongering, hype (or outright BS) and railroading. Probably %80 of the population has some of these companies in their 401k somewhere :/

[MobilOne]

P-hack,
You have stated that you have done computers since the beginning. I am curious as to what you consider the "beginning"?

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by P-hack

You have to string a lot of assumptions together just to make a "maybe it could possibly be ecomodder related" case.

Please elaborate this claim.

Do you claim you can accelerate / drive / brake / etc ... with more exact repeatable precision (to the mico-second) than a computer can , 100 times in a row , a 1,000 times in a row ?

I don't think the Eco-Modding of an autonomous car I described in Post #142 .. that claims you can't match that computer repeatable precision manually ... is anything but sound and proven.

- - - - -
I see some irony with the Anti-Autonomous car posts coming from the guy driving a Prius .. which is Autonomous computer controlled shifting .. computer controlled ICE throttle .. Computer controlled BMS .. Computer controlled HEV functions .. etc... P-hack is more financially supporting Autonomous driving technology than I am .. With my manual shifting , manual ICE throttle , Manual HEV function controls , etc ... Yup ... Irony ...

[P-hack]

The disction isn't that hard, really. Think cyborg vs robot (as tortured an existance being a cyborg might be). You still have a "human" brain with its autonomy and decision making and survival instincts etc. etc. with a cyborg (work with me here).

The systems you describe are the difference between a jack hammer and a regular hammer. There isn't any real intelligence involved, just a few mass and velocity parameters. There is no social interaction required by these systems, they are under the command of a human pilot.

"from the beginning", longer than I care to admit.

[IamIan]

The journey to a 100% consumer autonomous driving car is not a one step thing .. it is a journey of many many small steps ... just like the binary many many small steps computers use all the time to do very complicated tasks.

Automatic shifting is a small step toward autonomous driving cars.
Drive by wire is a small step toward autonomous driving cars.
ABS is a small step toward autonomous driving cars.
Park assist is a small step toward autonomous driving cars.
Lane change assist is a small step toward autonomous driving cars.
GPS automated map routing is a small step toward autonomous driving cars.
Rear sensors and cameras is a small step toward autonomous driving cars.
etc ... etc.

People choose to not do those things manually ... and piece by piece one step at a time we as a whole collectively and individually choose to automate the task of driving as a whole .. be they steps taken when someone buys the more automated Prius , instead of a less automated option .. or the steps taken when they buy some other vehicle with even more automation than the Prius has.

- - - - -

As for the cyborg vs robotic comparison.
It doesn't 'stop' ... the cyborg wanting to be better at math installs a computer to do that thinking for him autonomously ... the cyborg wanting to have better hand eye coordination installs a computer to automate that .. etc .. etc ... piece by piece ... one tiny piece at a time.

[P-hack]

re: prius, actually that is a good case study. As a hypermiler it sucks, you have to try to "outsmart it".

And of course automatic transmissions have historically REALLY sucked at efficiency, though not at margins.

Automatic transmissions are a pretty sad state of affairs actually, it isn't like controlling injector timing.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by P-hack

re: prius, actually that is a good case study.

Exactly.


Yet millions (not just you) willfully and intentionally bought the vehicle knowing it was more automated and took away more manual control from the driver ... thus choosing to financially support such small steps toward more automated driving.

One small step / piece at a time .. bit by bit.



PS:
I haven't yet seen the aftermarket produce a manual Prius .. manual plantary gear and power splitting .. manual HEV operation .. Even though if people wanted it .. there is more than enough technical know-how among the Prius owners to have done it years ago.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by IamIan

I haven't yet seen the aftermarket produce a manual Prius .. manual plantary gear and power splitting .. manual HEV operation .. Even though if people wanted it .. there is more than enough technical know-how among the Prius owners to have done it years ago.

Because if you want a hybrid with a manual transmission, you can just buy a Honda. And if you wanted more control, you could (at least for the Gen 1 Insight) get a MIMA system.