Scott Adams Thread (Garfield Cartoonist)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I started letting go when my son entered first grade.

Was that the split?

I'm ideologically similar to Jonathan Haidt with regards to child rearing. Bend, don't break. Peterson's "don't do for anyone what they can do for themselves". When you do for children, they learn helplessness. When you do for the elderly (or otherwise diminishing function), you accelerate the decline.

It's painful for me to watch my children struggle through a common process, but my duty is to produce capable people, not needy dependents. The mindset is 'how do we accomplish', not 'how do we extract from others accomplishment'.

[freebeard]

I'm ideologically similar to Jonathan Haidt with regards to child rearing.

I'm with dear old Timothy Leary. The brain has 4 [terrestrial] circuits that turn on sequentially that could be characterized as self/family/tribe/nation. Children are as competent as their adult self, within their current domain. Bucky Fuller said you learn half of everything by the time you're four.

I've seen single parent families (and once two-parent) families where the child though persistence and copious free time has taken control of their adult minder. Second circuit stuff.

Children supposedly can't see the consequences of their actions. Many adults can't see the consequences of their actions. Philosophers (and ex-cons ) know the consequences of their actions. Monks ruminate on the consequences of their actions, and maybe take it a little too far.

Was that the split?

I'd seen how the schools treated his two older half-brothers. I'd seen the beginnings of the 'long march through the institutions' when I was in college. The grade schools weren't as infiltrated as they are today, but it had already started.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I've seen single parent families (and once two-parent) families where the child though persistence and copious free time has taken control of their adult minder. Second circuit stuff.

That's more to do with a combination of intelligence and competence (and desperation). I was 19 when I discovered to my horror that my dad didn't just lack invulnerability, but was intellectually and physically defeatable by me who was a nobody.

I stumbled onto that accidentally. I've got no ambition to conquer for the sake of conquering. All of the levels are uninteresting to me.

Since then, despite my dense ability to observe, I have come to realize my dad has always sacrificed, always offered the best, and never complained about it. I was about 25 when I realized my dad gave me the best cut of meat, and he always has.

I'd seen the beginnings of the 'long march through the institutions' when I was in college. The grade schools weren't as infiltrated as they are today, but it had already started.

I was insulated for the most part. 80 kids in grades 1-6 (one teacher per 2 grades), so I knew everyone and their parents. The principal spanked me. The liberal teachers respected reality, and even indoctrinated us children daily with the pledge of allegiance to the Unites States of America.

Reason was accepted throughout most of grade school, though leftist concepts of power being associated with victimization and weakness with victimhood was becoming commonplace. I turned an incident where I shirked a mandatory pep rally so I could go to work early, walking through a woman trying to restrain my leaving, from a punishment for failing to abide by authority, to accepting an written apology from an authority for physically intimidating a minor, even though she was the one crying. I mean, my 16 year old mind never thought that BS would fly, but it was all I could contrive in the moment.

In junior college, the leftist administration would direct campus security to remove me from the "free speech zone" for advocating for the Republican party. There was 1 high ranking administrator that set things right. In retrospect, I'm ashamed to have advocated for the party at that time, though no party represents liberty, and therefore all is a false dichotomy. I do not regret offending administration for speaking freely in the free speech zone.

[freebeard]

It seems that both of you have feelings and thoughts of disgust about the issue.

Au contraire

I'm neither a slave nor an enslaver. To me it's an interesting intellectual question. How to disentangle the competing interests, so that everyone has the best possible outcome.

What would you suggest we do?

[freebeard]

Without acknowledgment, the "But how can it be done fairly?" comments and questions seem like thinly veiled attempts to deny the damage done and/or claim that reparations shouldn't happen.

Chattel slaves and their descendants were obviously screwed over (to put it very mildly) for centuries, and reparations are long overdue.

Who has claimed reparations shouldn't happen?

Chattel slaves have been oppressed for millennia. The United States shed it's colonial past in 1789. The Constitution acknowledged the problem with the 35ths clause, and it was finally sorted out in the 1860s. That's less than 100 years.

I suggest you consider a wider context.

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Triangular_trade
Triangular trade - Wikipedia
This trade, in trade volume, was primarily with South America, where most slaves were sold, but a classic example developed in 20th century study of the triangular trade is the colonial molasses trade, which involved the circuitous trading of slaves, sugar (often in liquid form, as molasses), and rum

Learn about the connection between the Democrat party and the Ku Klux Klan.

Learn about the Democrat LBJ 'War on Poverty' (and 'wars on ... in general) and the destruction wrought by the crack cocaine epidemic.

You will see why those chattel slave descendants are currently leaving the 'plantation'.

Thank you for continuing to engage on the question.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sgtlethargic

You have this reversed. I used to believe that ~90% of Black Americans are descendants of chattel slaves and ~10% of Black Americans immigrated here

Perhaps I've got it backwards, but then;

Of the over twelve million Africans forced into the trans-Atlantic slave trade from the sixteenth to the nineteenth centuries, four percent – roughly 470,000 men, women, and children – were sent to North America.

Half a million slaves were brought to North America, but each and every year thousands of black Africans legally immigrate, for hundreds of years.

Doesn't seem reasonable to me to conclude there are more descendants of the African slave trade, which ended many generations ago, than descendants of free immigrants, which has never ceased.

All that is a distraction from disentangling the problem of who is descended of slavery. What about the person who is 13% descended of a slave? Do they get 13% reparations?

What about the poor black folk who feel like they really need the "help", but do were descended of legal immigrants and therefore ineligible for reparations?

Then there's the fact that 100% of us are descended of slavery. How do we begin to bring justice to that history? Perhaps everyone can quit their jobs and research lineage and history back to the stone age to account for every single exploit, and then set about solving the problem.

The resources to compensate everyone will magically appear during this process, because that's where resources come from.

That's 3 of the hundreds of problems with this struggle session contrived by idiots.

Originally Posted by sgtlethargic

seem like thinly veiled attempts to deny the damage done and/or claim that reparations shouldn't happen.

I don't thinly veil, ever. Very clearly I stated that unless you have a magic DeLorean, you cannot deliver justice to history.

Chattel slaves and their descendants were obviously screwed over (to put it very mildly) for centuries, and reparations are long overdue.

Exactly, you get it completely. Reparations are due centuries ago.

Slavery in North America was a huge problem; one that was solved with much blood.

I like solving problems, but they have to be solvable. People forcing me to waste my time and effort to solve an unsolvable problem are contemptable.

We very bravely tilt at windmills, and shrink away at the dragon.

There are more slaves today than at any other point in history, and that is a solvable problem, but nobody is interested in solvable problems it seems.

The same goes for Native Americans.

They are the most privileged citizens in the US, having even their own nation. Look how well they're doing with all the "help". Maybe if we help everyone they will all be so successful.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The liberal teachers respected reality, and even indoctrinated us children daily with the pledge of allegiance to the Unites States of America.

Reason was accepted throughout most of grade school, though leftist concepts of power being associated with victimization and weakness with victimhood was becoming commonplace.

That was then, this is now: duckduckgo.com/?q=title+IX&iar=news&ia=news

Biden expands Title IX protections for pregnancy, trans people and sexual assault victims
ABC on MSN.com

GOP lawmakers slam Biden administration's new Title IX protections for 'gender identity'
FOX News on MSN.com
|20 hours ago

Biden 'undoing decades of women's rights' with changes to Title IX law
The Telegraph on MSN.com

New Title IX rules protect LGBTQ+ students, but transgender athletes aren't addressed
LA Times on MSN.com

DeVos: Biden's Title IX overhaul will be 'used to harm women'
Washington Examiner on MSN.com

Frankfurt School Marxism

Edit: Two minute delta.

What about the person who is 13% descended of a slave?

What about the persons who are descended from both a slave and a slaver?

[freebeard]

redpoint5 at #463:

"Chattel slaves and their descendants were obviously screwed over (to put it very mildly) for centuries, and reparations are long overdue."

Exactly, you get it completely. Reparations are due centuries ago.

One persons 'shucking and jiving' is another's reasoned discourse. Yours is not the only permissible opinion. Let us know when your ready for "How to disentangle the competing interests, so that everyone has the best possible outcome". I'm interested in your counterproposal.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sgtlethargic

None of that shucking and jiving acknowledged my statement in #461.

Please elaborate.

I'm always open to reason, especially when the reason results in funds accruing to harmed black individuals, who I identify as.

Originally Posted by freebeard

Let us know when you're ready for "How to disentangle the competing interests, so that everyone has the best possible outcome". I'm interested in your counterproposal.

Taking this rare opportunity to be the grammar Nazi.

I was recently called out for accidentally typing choose instead of chose. Those words are my kryptonite, along with clothes and cloths.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sgtlethargic

If there's a need to elaborate, it's you two ... elaborating less.

I'm ready to change any opinion in an instant given sufficient evidence and reason. To the extent possible, I divorce ideology from personhood, meaning I'm not a part of ideology, but ideology is a part of me. Therefore, I hang on loosely yet simultaneously fervently to reality as revealed to me. It's an impossible balance to perfect, but that's not reason to not try.