Scott Adams Thread (Garfield Cartoonist)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sgtlethargic

Thanks for trying to translate.

"Repatriated self-selecting reparation recipients" needs improvement.

Sure, but so does the definition of a black descendant of a slave who is presently harmed 160 years later. Kinda messy.

It looks like what you two mean is "the only way I'd ever be for reparations for chattel slavery is if the recipients willingly leave the US."

Not at all. You show me the living person who suffered institutional chattel slavery in the US, and I will insist they be made as whole as reasonably possible.

Show me a person who despises the US, (the least racist country in the world by far) is willing to trade dignity for easy money... and I'm willing to spend the money necessary to get them outta here (Which is what they want). Are you not for giving folks what they want when all interests align?

As an aside, we make that tradeoff all the time. As an example, for those who don't want to abide in civilized society, we pay $80k per year to isolate them from society. They want to exist apart from the broader society as evidenced by their behavior, and we oblige. I was a member of that group for a period of time, so I speak with authority.

This explains my comment regarding folks that want something stupid. Give it to them, hard.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by sgtlethargic

"Repatriated self-selecting reparation recipients" needs improvement.

Active voice. Which brings us back to the bumper sticker.

No reparations without repatriation.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

This explains my comment regarding folks that want something stupid.

In Scott Adams' terms, 'malicious compliance'.

Edit:

Originally Posted by sgtlethargic

"the only way I'd ever be for reparations for chattel slavery is if the recipients willingly leave the US."

Bingo. "Go on, take the money and run'.

Want to try children as chattel?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Want to try children as chattel?

They're absolute chattel, but miserable paying ones at that.

The payment to the slaveholder is mostly intangible, and the payment to society is highly variable.

Nobody chooses to be born. Nobody selects their parents. Nobody ordains their time. Nobody wills their place of origin. Nobody engineers their DNA. Clearly, the universe doesn't believe in equity.

[freebeard]

It was a miserable bargain, but necessary to keep the parents invested in the outcome. At least I thought so growing up.

I started letting go when my son entered first grade.

But now the State is expropriating and arrogating them to it's own ends.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I started letting go when my son entered first grade.

Was that the split?

I'm ideologically similar to Jonathan Haidt with regards to child rearing. Bend, don't break. Peterson's "don't do for anyone what they can do for themselves". When you do for children, they learn helplessness. When you do for the elderly (or otherwise diminishing function), you accelerate the decline.

It's painful for me to watch my children struggle through a common process, but my duty is to produce capable people, not needy dependents. The mindset is 'how do we accomplish', not 'how do we extract from others accomplishment'.

[freebeard]

I'm ideologically similar to Jonathan Haidt with regards to child rearing.

I'm with dear old Timothy Leary. The brain has 4 [terrestrial] circuits that turn on sequentially that could be characterized as self/family/tribe/nation. Children are as competent as their adult self, within their current domain. Bucky Fuller said you learn half of everything by the time you're four.

I've seen single parent families (and once two-parent) families where the child though persistence and copious free time has taken control of their adult minder. Second circuit stuff.

Children supposedly can't see the consequences of their actions. Many adults can't see the consequences of their actions. Philosophers (and ex-cons ) know the consequences of their actions. Monks ruminate on the consequences of their actions, and maybe take it a little too far.

Was that the split?

I'd seen how the schools treated his two older half-brothers. I'd seen the beginnings of the 'long march through the institutions' when I was in college. The grade schools weren't as infiltrated as they are today, but it had already started.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I've seen single parent families (and once two-parent) families where the child though persistence and copious free time has taken control of their adult minder. Second circuit stuff.

That's more to do with a combination of intelligence and competence (and desperation). I was 19 when I discovered to my horror that my dad didn't just lack invulnerability, but was intellectually and physically defeatable by me who was a nobody.

I stumbled onto that accidentally. I've got no ambition to conquer for the sake of conquering. All of the levels are uninteresting to me.

Since then, despite my dense ability to observe, I have come to realize my dad has always sacrificed, always offered the best, and never complained about it. I was about 25 when I realized my dad gave me the best cut of meat, and he always has.

I'd seen the beginnings of the 'long march through the institutions' when I was in college. The grade schools weren't as infiltrated as they are today, but it had already started.

I was insulated for the most part. 80 kids in grades 1-6 (one teacher per 2 grades), so I knew everyone and their parents. The principal spanked me. The liberal teachers respected reality, and even indoctrinated us children daily with the pledge of allegiance to the Unites States of America.

Reason was accepted throughout most of grade school, though leftist concepts of power being associated with victimization and weakness with victimhood was becoming commonplace. I turned an incident where I shirked a mandatory pep rally so I could go to work early, walking through a woman trying to restrain my leaving, from a punishment for failing to abide by authority, to accepting an written apology from an authority for physically intimidating a minor, even though she was the one crying. I mean, my 16 year old mind never thought that BS would fly, but it was all I could contrive in the moment.

In junior college, the leftist administration would direct campus security to remove me from the "free speech zone" for advocating for the Republican party. There was 1 high ranking administrator that set things right. In retrospect, I'm ashamed to have advocated for the party at that time, though no party represents liberty, and therefore all is a false dichotomy. I do not regret offending administration for speaking freely in the free speech zone.

[sgtlethargic]

Quote from #449: "For example, it solves the problem of working out the relatively few who are descended of slavery from the many who immigrated freely."

You have this reversed. I used to believe that ~90% of Black Americans are descendants of chattel slaves and ~10% of Black Americans immigrated here, when I looked it up a year or three ago. I was looking for sources and found the following. Whether it's 80% or 90% of Black Americans who are descendants of chattel slaves, that's still the vast majority.

https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and...re-immigrants/

[sgtlethargic]

In #452 freebeard confirmed that my interpretation of his position ("the only way I'd ever be for reparations for chattel slavery is if the recipients willingly leave the US.") is correct.

It seems that both of you have feelings and thoughts of disgust about the issue.

Essentially everything was taken from chattel slaves and they worked to create wealth for the slaveowners. This also created much wealth for the US. His position seems to be a haughty: Hmphh, well then, if the descendants of chattel slaves want to be made partially whole, they must voluntarily leave the US.

It seems that freebeard's (and quite probably redpoint5's) position is the worst kind of arrogance, entitlement, supremacy, and probably more.

[freebeard]

It seems that both of you have feelings and thoughts of disgust about the issue.

Au contraire

I'm neither a slave nor an enslaver. To me it's an interesting intellectual question. How to disentangle the competing interests, so that everyone has the best possible outcome.

What would you suggest we do?