The Slow Death of the Internal Combustion Engine

[Angel And The Wolf]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

More than the average prius driver who says they care.

Well, I don't burn coal, and I pay for the higher priced renew ably produced electricity from my electric provider, so, I guess I'm not the average Prius driver.
If you don't care if your provider generates electricity by loading up the air with coal burning byproducts, I don't see how you can claim to care more than me.

But, I guess driving your car at the lowest cost to you is your priority, and nothing else.

[oil pan 4]

You're not getting anything. You pay more for the same electricity as everyone else uses. But if thay makes you happy then go for it.

I burn high quality anthracite coal when I do burn coal. It burns cleaner than any wood I have ever burned. Most of my home heating comes from construction scraps and pallet wood that would have been sent to a land fill. My power bill is down nearly $200 a month compared to last year, all thanks to my wood stove and coal furnace. The wood stove and coal furnace will just about pay for them selves this year.
I save the coal for exceptionally cold nights.
But since you have never burned coal and don't know anything about it besides what you have been told to believe you wouldn't know.

[Angel And The Wolf]

OK, we are after different things. I withdraw.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Taylor95

If a gasoline car catches on fire, the fire will be contained in the engine bay or outside where fuel has spilled, and where the gas tank is located. Though gas burns hot and fast, I think my chances for survival are much better in that situation than the fire coming from directly underneath of me.

So are you implying that petrol cars are safer overall than EVs?

Fires are less frequent per mile in EVs than conventional vehicles.

As far as overall safety goes, that information doesn't seem to be easily obtainable.

I don't really believe those who say vehicle safety is #1 to them anyhow. 80% of Americans are at least overweight, and health issues related to weight/diet is the #1 threat to health besides aging itself. Then, limiting the number of miles driven and driving only during the safest times of day would be next on the list to keep you safe on the road. Somewhere near the bottom on the list of safety items is likelihood of burning to death in a vehicle crash.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by Taylor95

If a gasoline car catches on fire, the fire will be contained in the engine bay or outside where fuel has spilled, and where the gas tank is located. Though gas burns hot and fast, I think my chances for survival are much better in that situation than the fire coming from directly underneath of me.

You would think that, except the opposite may be true: when gasoline vehicles catch on fire, it happens more rapidly and unexpectedly than in an EV battery ("The biggest difference is the time it takes to ignite. Gasoline fires start almost immediately when gasoline comes in contact with a spark or flame, and spreads rapidly. Battery fires typically take some time to achieve the heat necessary to start the fire").

Here are some numbers. According to the National Fire Protection Association, there are approximately 175,000 ICE vehicle fires each year in the US. With 263 million vehicles on the road, that means on average 1:1,502 ICE vehicles catches fire each year. Since 2012, there have been 40 Tesla fires total, out of approximately 300,000 vehicles sold--that works out to an average 1:50,000 fires per year. This looks to me like a case of "familiarity breeds complacency."

What you should really be afraid of is your oven: more than 150,000 of those catch on fire every year in the US.

[oil pan 4]

Worry about fires?
Get a diesel.

[Taylor95]

Actually the percentage of overweight/obese adults is about 72% (sorry I'm a nutrition student). I'm sure some county in rural Mississippi has at least 80% though. But you're right; 6 of the top 10 causes of death have strong ties to nutrition. Accidental death is in the top ten though. When I talk about the risk of vehicle fires, I'm not concerned at all with the chance of that actually happening to me. The numbers are so small that it doesn't matter if it is 1 per 100,000 or 1 per 1,000,000. I think in terms of what the chances that I will make it out alive if that happened. So I reiterate--if a fire happened in a gasoline powered car, I think it would take awhile for the fire to get to where I'm sitting. In an electric vehicle, I would be toast. I would rather live through three "regular" car fires than become a statistic for deaths in an EV fire.

One problem that renewable "green" sources of energy must overcome is definitely the costs of operating using such sources. If it continues to command a substantially higher price than fossil fuels, no one would switch over. If governments mandated the switch, that would definitely stifle the economy and drive up prices of things. Until green energy can compete with fossil fuels on price, it will be nothing more than novelty. I see sources offering clean energy for "a few cents more" than conventional, per kwh. When the average house uses almost 1000 kwh, that is a substantial monthly difference.

[Taylor95]

That article pretty much said that gasoline cars are probably less safe than EV fires.

While battery fires take longer to catch fire, the article notes the drawback of that. It could occur after running something over (after the driver thinks everything is fine), or in a garage.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by Taylor95

When I talk about the risk of vehicle fires, I'm not concerned at all with the chance of that actually happening to me. The numbers are so small that it doesn't matter if it is 1 per 100,000 or 1 per 1,000,000. I think in terms of what the chances that I will make it out alive if that happened.

This position makes no sense to me. You're using the risk of a catastrophic event which has a very low probability of happening to you as a driver in a hypothetical purchasing decision? Why not focus on things that have a higher probability of happening? There's an extremely small chance that if I buy a house somewhere, a meteor will fall on that exact location and destroy it--but I won't factor that into my decision to buy a certain house or not.

Originally Posted by Taylor95

So I reiterate--if a fire happened in a gasoline powered car, I think it would take awhile for the fire to get to where I'm sitting. In an electric vehicle, I would be toast.

You've averred this twice now, with no evidence to suggest it has any truth to it.

[Taylor95]

Just look at where the batteries are stored in a Tesla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99VxHwTGKw0

Typical car fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVN8AqI8eHY

You can see in these examples that the fire is contained in the engine bay. The cab won't spontaneously catch fire; it has to spread from where the source of the fire is.

EV fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q

This video clearly shows the batteries exploding when on fire.

Plus they can be harder to put out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gnK9WtZfyU

An interesting read:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ns_with_li_ion