Some Hypermiling techniques denounced by AAA

[Bror Jace]

I'm with Frank Lee. It's all CYA. If/when asked about this, they 'officially' must come down on all illegal practices or habits that, if taken to an extreme, can be dangerous. But c'mon, it's AAA ... a service for the average, non-thinking motorist. Why would anyone here listen to them?

However, I'll admit that I do all of the above to some extent. I follow larger vehicles ... but don't tail gate (50+ feet). I will roll through a stop sign at 5-7 mph if it's clear and there's no-one in sight. and I am at just a few pounds less than the sidewall maximums with my tires.

We, hypermilers, are slow and careful drivers in general, as a group. We are causing a lot fewer accidents on the public roads (per mile) than just about any other subdivision of the motoring public.

Hey MazdaMatt, you also run 2-3 psi less in the rears? I like that ... helps prevent oversteer in emergency maneuvers.

[whatthe]

Originally Posted by RH77

For most vehicles, turning the key to the "On" position after cutting the engine will engage electronic controls: ABS, airbags, stability control, signals, etc.

I actually had to perform a full ABS stop while EOC-ing last year. I hadn't touched the brakes, so I had full vac and stopped missing the obstacle without a problem. The ABS motor will cycle the channels more slowly, but the force is still the same. It depends on battery power.

In the TSX, I tried the stability control in a parking lot with snow. It's a bit "muted" -- it acts more slowly, but still does the job. That car doesn't see much EOC time -- heavy steering and a long crank-over.



You can still see a benefit further back. I don't draft trucks, period. The rule is, if you can see the driver's mirrors, you're OK.

RH77

I know the accumulator on my toyota is rated at 14 Volts so under load with just battery, I could see the system being much slower.

I just think it's one of those procedures that people should test on an empty road somewhere with their car to see how it behaves.

[azraelswrd]

Originally Posted by garys_1k

This whole thing just must show what a rebel I am.

I own a gun, so that means I'm likely to blow somebody's head off if they cheese me off, right? Bad, bad, me.

I hypermile, so that means I'm likely to kill a grandma' and/or a station wagon full of nuns, right? Sure it does.

I'm such a bad man -- bad to the bone.

Not a station wagon... a BUS full of nuns we hypermilers will kill. Not if. WHEN.

(I drive with the Golden Rule in mind and so far, so goodie. Respect y'all. It's more than just another "R" word.... too bad most drivers out there either forget or never had any. That's where the trouble lies and not with us busloaded nun-killers. )

[garys_1k]

Originally Posted by azraelswrd

Not a station wagon... a BUS full of nuns we hypermilers will kill. Not if. WHEN.

(I drive with the Golden Rule in mind and so far, so goodie. Respect y'all. It's more than just another "R" word.... too bad most drivers out there either forget or never had any. That's where the trouble lies and not with us busloaded nun-killers. )

EXACTLY! I stick to the right hand lane and want those in a hurry to feel free to pass me. I do understand that state of mind, been there and done that, too. But I feel wiser, now. $4 + gas will do that to you.

[instarx]

Why is everyone getting so upset about the AAA article - they're right... about the average driver, their audience.

AAA isn't saying that hypermilers cause accidents, but that hypermiling techniques used by the average driver can cause accidents. To hypermile you have to be constantly aware of your surroundings and what every car in front of you and behind you is doing. While a hypermiler's attention may extend blocks ahead, the average driver's attention will be on the car in front of them (or on their cellphone conversation). The average driver has very low situational awareness while the average hypermiler has very high situational awareness. That makes all the difference in whether a particular technique is safe or unsafe.

As Jeremy Clarkson said on Top Gear once when hypermiling: "The amount of concentration required to drive like this is huge. If everyone drove like this there would never be a crash."

[htvfd460]

With in the response to: "AAA opposes all of those methods, noting that cutting off a car's engine may negatively affect power steering and power brakes; overinflating tires leads to uneven tire wear; and rolling through stop signs and tailgating trucks puts drivers at risk. ". there are reasons that they see and the Ideas of Eco-nomy and concideration to to the Eco-system.
Ignition kill affects many aspects of a vehicls intended use by engineers. First off an engine not spinning creates no vacuum, and if the vehicle has "power breaks" you get one chance to stop with in relative controll. now if the vehicle has abs, than more likely it uses electricity. A battery that is nearly dead will do all sorts of odd things to anything that depends on specific voltage. So if the engine is off and coasting down a hill and a small woodland creature like a moose or even a kid chasing a ball, the chances of avoiding the worst case scenario has dropped drastically.
Powersteering is in many vehicles, though not all. Either Pump driven or Electrically driven pumps or elictrically assisting threw motors are necessary at low speeds for many people. A mazda 3 has an electric pump, ignition off and then no more pump. If its pully driven, each turn still makes the fluid flow. This results in "burping" and can end up on the motor causing risk of fire and can drip into our earth {We all know thats not good}. With electric steering, having the ignition off shuts off the computer or tells the computer that the vehicle as a whole isnt being used for roadly purposes.
Over inflating tires {The one thing that urks me the most out of anything automotive} leads to serious concerning problems. With the Firestone and Ford Explorer thing Ford did a bit with the GOVT. Their response was taken and applied. To reduce the max inflation spec on the tire. The reason is that when you over inflate or underinflate a tire the rolling resistance and frictional response changes. Overinflating still increases tire temperature as much as underinflation. The tire wears unevenly and affects breaking {like adding truck tires to a Ford Fiesta} The brakes have to work harder and burn faster and glaze up {If ya want that result just throw motor oil on the pads, the result will still be the same (I tested that on a Ford focus for a customer)} Tires wearing unevenly leads to costs. how much is a new tire? For example we will go with $40 to $140. Usually they last between 20 and 60 thousand miles. Over and under inflation reduces that to 1/3 that wear milage. so the cost goes up to $120- $520 per tire. from $1 per 500 miles to $1 per 166 miles at the low end. {Miles divided by each tires cost then multiply by 4} At the high end it goes from $1 per 428.571 miles (these seem worht the money at 60k) to $1 per 142.857 miles. {there is an error of less than 1% with my calculations and they are at the extremes for value and wear to show there is a nominal value that isnt lost threw full tank savings. But that can be offset by the price of fuel too, at an extreme} The other part is that the ride becomes stiff and can bounce on a bumpy road resulting in less controll. Whats affects the environment? More resourses are being used up.
I have a feeling there are 2 ideas for economy here. First is financial savings thew owning and opperating a vehicle as a whole. the other is the highest MPG for a tank of fossil fuel.
My side that i choose is Over all opperation and owning and maintaing cost. I see it as a longer term of savings and responsibility to the Eco-Systems that i am affecting that my Daughter gets to inherit.

[Frank Lee]

You ought to poke around here a bit more.

[htvfd460]

For what reason? (open minded). I just left alot of stuff to be critiqued so I am looking for a focus to concentrate on.

[Frank Lee]

Because the consequences of engine-off coasting operations have been tested and very, very comprehensively discussed. The world will not come to an end because of coasting. We know to expect BRAKES yes BRAKES NOT BREAKS to lose power assist after a while.

We know to expect power steering effort to increase somewhat (very little at speed and not a hazard at all when you are aware of it).

A battery that is nearly dead will do all sorts of odd things to anything that depends on specific voltage.

OK where did this come from?

This results in "burping" and can end up on the motor causing risk of fire and can drip into our earth

Perhaps a bit melodramatic? Most glides don't involve all that much steering correction I'd wager and thus no burping spills. Most oily motors don't burst into flames.

Overinflating still increases tire temperature as much as underinflation.

I'd like to see the explanation and supporting data for that. I don't believe it for a second.

The tire wears unevenly and affects breaking {like adding truck tires to a Ford Fiesta} The brakes have to work harder and burn faster and glaze up {If ya want that result just throw motor oil on the pads, the result will still be the same (I tested that on a Ford focus for a customer)}

The brakes have to work harder... hmmm... not.

Tires wearing unevenly leads to costs. how much is a new tire? For example we will go with $40 to $140. Usually they last between 20 and 60 thousand miles. Over and under inflation reduces that to 1/3 that wear milage. so the cost goes up to $120- $520 per tire. from $1 per 500 miles to $1 per 166 miles at the low end. {Miles divided by each tires cost then multiply by 4} At the high end it goes from $1 per 428.571 miles (these seem worht the money at 60k) to $1 per 142.857 miles. {there is an error of less than 1% with my calculations and they are at the extremes for value and wear to show there is a nominal value that isnt lost threw full tank savings. But that can be offset by the price of fuel too, at an extreme}

Nobody- and I mean NOBODY- is reporting a 67% decrease in tire life.

The other part is that the ride becomes stiff and can bounce on a bumpy road resulting in less controll. Whats affects the environment? More resourses are being used up.

If that happens I'd say one has gone too far with the overinflating, and is also going far too fast.

Bring some good supporting evidence or even logic and we'll listen...

[htvfd460]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

(A) We know to expect BRAKES yes BRAKES NOT BREAKS to lose power assist after a while.

(B) OK where did this come from?


(C) Most oily motors don't burst into flames.


(D)I'd like to see the explanation and supporting data for that. I don't believe it for a second.

(E) The brakes have to work harder... hmmm... not.

(F) Nobody- and I mean NOBODY- is reporting a 67% decrease in tire life.

(G) If that happens I'd say one has gone too far with the overinflating, and is also going far too fast.

(H) Bring some good supporting evidence or even logic and we'll listen...

A-Fanks for teh speling corection. I t maeks a difrents in evry1s Uh-bility 2 undr stand teh mesage wAt I R taulking ah-boot. Eh? I am pretty sure any one who read my horrible spelling still understood what i was expressing.

B- The Ford Escape Hybrid started Ford's Electronic assist steering. It ties in to the computer and ABS module. When a low CCA battery is being used the electronics {Diodes, capasitors, Rectifiers, resistors and so on} Dont perform to their intended use. If cruising and the battery doesnt have enough charge to start the current escapes {with a fueld motor} then the steering efforts will increase and may result in seroius problems. Along with any electronic module malfunctioning {ABS}.

C- Check out Chrysler's recall campaign K26. 10v-475 from oct 2010. In sum they recalled 26,000 vehicles for risk of fire from the powersteering fluid going on the the engine.

D- Check out www.Ehow.com/i/#article_5784335 and there is a nice tire pressure chart with temp adjustments on this one Tire Inflation

E- www.Sports.racer.net/brake_bias.htm Along with my Automotive training and Ford's training as well. Take a mass and rorate it at a high speed {Centrifugal Force} Now further the distance of the diameter of that mass. Suddenly it has more kinetic energy. To slow down this increased energy an opposing force with equil energy must be applied. So simple.

F- Thats good that no one is describing those concerns here. But have you overinflated a 285/75/16 load range D for an E application? Or have you dealt with overinflated tires installed on a KIA? A wider spectrum of experience is where i am speaking from {In comparison to what people could think}. And little johnny with daddys cadilac thinks the tires look low, he's going to fill them up untill he sees the bottom treads. Ohh but he doesn't know that the tires were ok from the get go. Oops! 60psi later.... and the next service daddys mechanic says: "why are your tires overinflated? I set them to the propper pressure 3000 miles ago! The pressure should have dropped a little. Not doubled!"

G- Yes you are correct. But the roads round here are full of potholes and speed bumps. Gravel and oils. This one applies to location.

H-my favorite parts was with your retort. C you used the word "Most" indicating you know that it has happened and it is a danger if PS fluid reaches a hot enough surface to reach its flashpoint. The spelling thing i already had my say, and i must add that it was partiall from frustration. I know my spelling suck, but this isnt college. I will give my self an F on that one. As for H- Ohh the logic is there. But no one is listening to you either... Unless you recorded your voice and responded by posting a link to the audio file. We are reading here. Ohh by the way going loosely with the term "Listening" You obviously did. you wouldn't have responded if you didn't take the info in and process it. {I have been corrected for the Listening thing so many times its just a pet peve now}