Someone is not a fan of Tesla

[CFECO]

A "Credit" from the Government , is a Tax not being paid, which IS paid by the working man somewhere down the line.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by CFECO

A "Credit" from the Government , is a Tax not being paid, which IS paid by the working man somewhere down the line.

The money is not "from the government." The money is private money used to trade in credits. The policy merely makes the market happen. What you're saying is tantamount to claiming that stocks in companies are taxes because the government has created the legal language that makes "public corporations" possible. Workers will have to make the stuff for companies to sell so that their stocks become valuable, but that does not make stocks in corporations merely a "Tax not being paid." Our stock markets, trading in incorporated entities, do not exist without the government constructing the legal parameters of the market. That's how our political economy works. Such credit swapping is not a stock exchange, but it is merely another market in value constructed by the state. It is not a tax, or a tax unpaid.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

You're confusing the ZEV credits with a vehicle rebate program. Those are separate issues. The ZEV credits are not a subsidy. This is a public policy supporting emissions controls in California, a place with serious air quality problems in several regions of the state. The credits do not represent tax money. They are a form of crediting the production of low-emissions vehicles so that automakers will have an incentive to build them. The incentive is to industry, not consumers. Tesla is making money off the credits by selling them to other automakers. Public funds are not involved.

I don't believe I had any confusion, as what you have stated is my understanding. CAFE sets a cap on allowable CO2 emissions that any given company (or is it vehicle class?) can emit, and they can buy their way into exceeding these caps by trading with other companies, or by creating their own useless "compliance" vehicles.

My point remains; someone has to pay for this. That someone is always, 100% of the time, consumers. While the cap on CO2 may have been well intentioned, in the end, it will do absolutely nothing for the environment, some people in bed with the politicians will effortlessly become rich, and the consumer will be stuck holding the bill (via inflated vehicle pricing).

CO2 as a pollutant is not a localized problem to CA. I have never heard of a report suggesting health has been affected in CA due to CO2 level rise, or that crops have been failing due to localized CO2 levels.

If CO2 production is a serious enough concern, then it's a global concern requiring a global effort and global enforcement, with every nation regardless of size or status to participate equally. Failing this, there is no point in local regulation except to make a few rich, and many people poorer.

[California98Civic]

The Cali ZEV program is not the Federal CAFE program. And ZEV is not about CO2 alone. ZEV is not about fuel economy. ZEV is a policy that targets a variety of Smog producing agents that are caused partly by auto emissions, NOX would be one. Smog is a real issue here in California, as it is in some other areas of the world. Public policy that puts vehicles on the road that don't add to the local smog problem is good for health, of children especially, and good for the regional economy as it prevents smog warning days that keep people indoors or at home. Since the credit trading program is designed as a market incentive it is not surprising that it is helping some people get ugly rich. I don't like that part of it either. But it is helping to field some innovative cars, all of which lack tailpipes. And a side benefit might also be getting more Americans out of the narrowest mindset of gasoline as the only go-juice.

[Frank Lee]

The government pays people to reproduce and I don't see anyone whining about that.

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

The government pays people to reproduce and I don't see anyone whining about that.

So start a new thread on that topic I'm sure we can get people railing on that too

[CFECO]

Originally Posted by mcrews

So start a new thread on that topic I'm sure we can get people railing on that too

Oh Yea, thats for sure!

[NachtRitter]

Isn't that what this thread was all about... whining that someone can take tax credits they are allowed to take ... ?

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

Isn't that what this thread was all about... whining that someone can take tax credits they are allowed to take ... ?

No.
It's about government creating self serving programs that reward one group at the cost to another. It's about trying to control behavior beyond the scope of the powers granted.
But while your at it....really tired of liberal wanting to increase tax rates.
Maybe if they just filed the short form and didn't take their tax breaks we'd have plenty of revenue.... Just a thought.

Happy Holyday !

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by mcrews

No.
It's about government creating self serving programs that reward one group at the cost to another. It's about trying to control behavior beyond the scope of the powers granted.

You mean like rewarding people if they have kids at the cost of those that don't?