The stupidification of gauges

[slowmover]

Have lately bookmarked a couple of threads elsewhere on this subject; related:


After running the new oil pressure gauge for a few days now, readings have been:

idle-750 rpm - 19psi
1000 rpm - 30psi
1500 rpm - 50 psi
2000 rpm - 63 psi

The factory gauge in the dash just sits at about 45 always.


ISSPRO Oil Gauge Installation



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. . about temp, here is what I have seen:

Normal town driving coolant 195F, oil 200F-210F

Highway empty at 65-75 coolant 200, oil 220F-240F

Towing in town, backroads (below 60) coolant 200F, oil 220F or so

Towing on highway (10k 5'er) coolant 205F-210F, oil 240F to 250F on longer uphills

Engine RPM over 2k pushes the oil temp to 220F pretty quick if maintained, oil temp directly moves relating to EGT (more load, oil temp moves more than coolant temp) and then back down very slowly.

Takes about 10 minutes at idle or very low load like rolling into campgrounds to get below 220F once it gets up the 240F range and is usually still over 210F when I am parked and unhooked and ready to shut down, EGT is at 300F-350F by the time I am checked in at the gate, so those shutting down after long hard pulls just b/c the EGT is down are forgetting that everything else is totally heat soaked also and cooking under the hood.

Opening the hood upon arrival and letting it idle while unhooking brings the oil temp down about 5* more than leaving it shut -- not much help.

Cooler ambient temps don't make much difference unless below about 30F then I see the oil temps just take longer to get up to 220F or so, but still get and stay there on the highway easily.


CTD Remote Filter


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[Dieselman]

The reasoning is that most people get scared by varying gauge readings so think their car is faulty, so manufactures have opted for gauges that will stay in the normal range until they really need to move.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Dieselman

The reasoning is that most people get scared by varying gauge readings so think their car is faulty, so manufactures have opted for gauges that will stay in the normal range until they really need to move.

Propaganda. In this country, just PR as an excuse.

Tends to help if I think I am so stupid. If not, chances are that on a subject so simple as this that I am being given a line of . . . .

[gone-ot]

...information is information, and all information should be "accurate" -- not PR-dictated "approximate" -- especially with todays usage of computer-controlled engine/transmission systems which rely on accurate sensor inputs!

[mechman600]

As a dealership mechanic, I WISH they got rid of guages and stuck to idiot lights. For 95% or car owners (none who frequent this forum!), that would be enough. Too much info is usually a bad thing. Who cares if a coolant temp guage is slightly higher than normal - when the bells and alarms go off, stop the car!

And that is why OEMs make their "guages" so vague. If you need more, buy a ScanGuage.

[tjts1]

My car has a real oil pressure gauge from the factory and I wish it didn't. One more thing to worry about.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by mechman600

As a dealership mechanic, I WISH they got rid of guages and stuck to idiot lights. For 95% or car owners (none who frequent this forum!), that would be enough. Too much info is usually a bad thing. Who cares if a coolant temp guage is slightly higher than normal - when the bells and alarms go off, stop the car!

And that is why OEMs make their "guages" so vague. If you need more, buy a ScanGuage.

I heard that a long time ago and wondered if it still applied today. The example was that if 2 neighbors bought similar cars and one coolant gauge was higher than the other, it became unnecessary dealer service visit and created more work for folks in your line of work.

Using the coolant temp as an example, I know most cars now have a threshold position of "normal" until the voltage from the sensor goes beyond that the high range of normal and moves beyond it. When that happens for me, I know there's a cooling issue since I watch those things closely (like a lot of us here) -- the SG generally confirms the suspicion.

I had a new Beretta back in the day that was way off on the speedometer (indicated 6-7 mph faster than actual, at 60 mph), based on mile-marker calculations (way before GPS and SGs). First, I was concerned that my warranty would run out too quickly, since the odometer was accumulating about 3% more miles than actual (at the time, I was driving 35K a year, so that's about 1000 miles, which got me upset). So yeah, I called the dealer and got the lecture that 1 - Americans speed, so they need the mind-game to keep them out of trouble, and that 2 - the Government allows a certain speed/odo percentage of "error" from the factory. Not sure if that's the case, but I had to buy it.

When cars offered "Gauge Packages" our family usually opted for them to stay "fully informed car nuts" Now gauge clusters and auxiliary pods are pretty similar from the factory, except for the up-market trim levels, but still very cookie-cutter for the most part...

RH77

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by tjts1

My car has a real oil pressure gauge from the factory and I wish it didn't. One more thing to worry about.

Mine thankfully doesn't. It just beeps and displays "STOP! OIL PRESSURE LOW" when I kill the engine while rolling. I seriously doubt that anyone would see that warning without EOCing.

[mechman600]

The dealership I work for is a heavy truck dealership. Unfortunately, the gauges in our trucks are quite accurate. Trucks show up all the time, already pre-diagnosed by the owner. "Yeah, I need a turbo because my boost gauge is down 2 pounds on hard pulls." Oi. Then comes the painful process of explaining electronically controlled VGTs and the dozens of factors that help the engine decide how much boost it needs at any given moment.

Check out the ridiculous number of analog confusion devices in the typical truck we sell:
http://www.peterbilt.com/uploaded/ne...Package-lg.jpg

They should scrap most of them. If something is wrong, the check engine light will come on. If something is very wrong, the stop engine light will come on.

[nemo]

IMO far to many techs /mechanics dismiss what the customer is telling them. They put it on the computer or diagnostic equipment (not limited to the transportation world) and say there is nothing wrong. The problem here is twofold, one the same sensors are being used that may be causing the problem, to diagnose it and two sometimes the problem will exist only under a given set of criteria (that may not reproduce its' self in the shop or at time of inspection).
Let me tell you about an experience I had. I bought a new car but the car never idled correctly. The dealer said it was normal (no codes). At 50k miles (still no codes) when I changed the spark plugs as I pulled off a plug wire to my surprise the center electrode portion came with it. Guess what, it idles better.
Yes, sometimes it is the customer, In my field I have not found more than a half dozen who have actually read the operators guide and a large percentage of time is spent "educating" the customer. This doesn't make me think gauges need to be stupefied, just more education.