12-04-2011, 04:54 PM
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#31 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Totally agree. Obviously there is usually something wrong when customers have gone out of their way to bring their vehicle in. Your idle example is a good example of techs relying too much on their diagnostic computer. I would say that till recently, 50% of problems do not show up there. But the latest stuff (MY 2011 + in HD trucks, anyway) is pretty good at self diagnostics. Every complaint I have had in MY 2011+ trucks so far has been cured following fault code diagnostics or an engine software update. They really have come a long way in that respect.
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12-04-2011, 05:13 PM
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#32 (permalink)
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mechman600
The the comment about software update is on the money. Trouble shooting and changing parts won't fix if it's in the software. Unfortunately that is getting to be more of a problem and will continue as systems get more complex.
Last edited by nemo; 12-04-2011 at 05:36 PM..
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12-04-2011, 05:18 PM
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#33 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Exactly. There are so many sub-systems in the latest diesels. EGR. VGT. Common-rail injection. DOC & DPF aftertreatment. SCR (urea) aftertreatment. Even the engine has it's own private CAN so the systems can all communicate with the ECM over two wires. Imagine how complicated it is to manage all of this. When the factory updates software to cure a problem in one sub-system, it usually screws up something in another because they are all working together. It seems like an never ending process.
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12-04-2011, 05:39 PM
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#34 (permalink)
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Or the new version puts back a problem that was cured in the last one.
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12-04-2011, 09:56 PM
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#35 (permalink)
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...beats walking...
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...does everyone here realize that they can get an idea of what software version number(s) are applicable for EACH computer in their GM car?
...go to the ACDelco Techconnect website, and click on Technical Information Service in the upper left-hand box (GM Service Information).
...when the next screen pops up, go to the lower right-hand box and near the bottom, click on the statement: Look Up Vehicle Calibration (No Charge)
...you'll need to enter the VIN for your vehicle.
Last edited by gone-ot; 12-04-2011 at 10:05 PM..
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12-04-2011, 10:07 PM
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#36 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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This last bit had nothing to do with GM. Thankfully.
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12-04-2011, 10:45 PM
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#37 (permalink)
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...beats walking...
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...all USA cars now use OBD-II CAN-bus, and TONs of software, residing in way too many different microprocessors, scattered all over our cars. Just saying GM info is available.
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12-04-2011, 11:47 PM
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#38 (permalink)
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Depends on the Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman600
Exactly. There are so many sub-systems in the latest diesels. EGR. VGT. Common-rail injection. DOC & DPF aftertreatment. SCR (urea) aftertreatment. Even the engine has it's own private CAN so the systems can all communicate with the ECM over two wires. Imagine how complicated it is to manage all of this. When the factory updates software to cure a problem in one sub-system, it usually screws up something in another because they are all working together. It seems like an never ending process.
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Wow -- HD Diesel powerplants have gotten a LOT more complex since the days of say a non-DDEC Detroit 6V92 (personally one of my favorite, mass-produced old screamers).
It sounds like real-time customer diagnosis and Diesel emission regulations have become the main reasons for the extra tech, which is sounds good, but I bet really tricky to diagnose when it goes wrong (But 2-wires for the main COM? There has to be a lot of data streaming over those, at tight intervals). Like the customer with low boost -- with fly-by-wire throttles "making a request" of the computer(s) what in what to do (in our case, ignition timing, transmission action, etc.) old-school drivers are probably concerned if the the pedal is mashed and doesn't result in what used to happen. It sounds like education / re-education is needed these days. The "throw a visible code" and "reduced power" modes must extend engine/driveline life, with drivers that know what they're doing.
But, the idea of a "Firmware/Software Update" concerns me with my PC, let alone a rig that's probably worth more than my house -- and with owner-operators that aren't making money if their truck is in the shop. I still say, yours sounds like a cool job.
I wonder what our Pilots think here (I know you're out there). Straightforward information though instruments/gauges in everything from a Piper Cub up to a new 787 or A330 (and everything in-between) -- with critical info "audibles" and master caution / warnings -- and how that perspective translates to the average road vehicle feedback...
RH77
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Last edited by RH77; 12-04-2011 at 11:58 PM..
Reason: sentence structure
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12-05-2011, 03:22 AM
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#39 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Just to give you an idea, the '08 Cummins HD products (the first ones with DPFs) are on their 42nd software revision now. The '11 products are on their 18th.
Yeah, 2 wire data-link/CAN. Many smart devices: EGR valve, turbocharger, upsteam NOx sensor, downstream NOx sensor, and exhaust ECU. All communicating with the ECM (brain) over the engine's very own CAN Bus (2-wires). Like high speed internet. And the ECM communicates with the trucks ECM and ABS ECU and transmission ECU (if equipped). The trucks ECM communicates with the chassis node (powers exterior lighting). All normal fare for quite some time now. HD truck diesels have all been fly by wire for 20 years now. Detroit in '88 or so, Caterpillar in '95, Cummins in '92.
The beauty of CAN systems is they really aren't hard to diagnose. It's only two wires. Fault code based diagnostics has come a long way, and any little glitch triggers a fault. 2013 will bring EPA mandated OBD diagnostics to all trucks which should help even more.
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12-05-2011, 04:29 PM
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#40 (permalink)
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Wannabe greenie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo
I've only ever had one car that when the gauge showed empty it was. Every other one I got more miles out of the first half than the second and could continue driving after they hit empty. It would be nice if they were accurate.
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This may be an urban legend, but I had heard somewhere that when Ford started putting digital clusters in their cars in the late 80's/early 90's, several owners sued because when the distance to empty gauge read "0 miles", they ran out of gas instead of being able to drive another 20 or 30 miles. Most digital fuel computers now have some reserve built in for that reason.
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