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Old 03-28-2019, 12:50 PM   #101 (permalink)
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The base Model 3 is coming. And it has already caused at least four 200+ mile EV's to be built and sold.

If the lowest price model came out first, then Tesla would fail.

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Old 03-28-2019, 12:55 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Sure, I get that, and I don't have much of an issue with the way Tesla does business. I'm just saying consumers should have realistic expectations given past time-tables, and the speed at which Tesla changes prices. We might get a 2 week window where the "base" Y is offered to satisfy the claim that it will only cost $40k. Technically accurate, practically worthless.
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:01 PM   #103 (permalink)
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It is suggested that problems with the manually adjustable chairs cause the delays for the Standard range. The Standard Plus has electric chairs and has been delivered.

If it is indeed a problem with the chairs it won't hold them back indefinitely.
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:03 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Weird. You'd think manual chairs come mostly assembled and you just bolt 'em in and plug in the occupancy sensor and heater wires.

I much prefer manual seats... unless the electrics have driver sensing position memory.
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:15 PM   #105 (permalink)
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The chairs can only be cheaper if mass produced, otherwise they'd better keep the process simple and have electric chairs in the Standard range too.

But that could be the problem. Musk said that building the factory is 100 times harder than designing the car. It could just be logistics, different materials, organizational chaos, introducing flexibility in a spot unprepared for it...
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:36 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
The base price is probably more like $40k.
You were comparing it to an RAV4 Hybrid AWD. It isn't my fault that Tesla charges an extra $4,000 for AWD and only offers it with the long range battery.

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Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
That doesn't matter one bit.

First off, the CFR definition of a light truck doesn't even matter for other government arms like the EPA or NHTSA, and the public certainly doesn't care what it says. They each use their own definitions, which is how you get a vehicle like the PT Cruiser classified as a truck by one and a car by the other.
The PT cruiser being classified as a light truck is one of the reason that the EPA changed their requirements and added a minimum ground clearance.

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Second, no "definition" matters to car buyers: their only concerns are image and perceived utility, and those are determined by marketing. If a car is styled and marketed as a CUV, it's a CUV. The Hyundai Kona is smaller in every dimension except height than the Focus ST, but the Kona is a crossover and the FoST is not. The Ecosport has less cargo capacity and less headroom than the Focus hatch, but it's a CUV and the Focus is not. The Hyundai Ioniq and Kia Niro are exactly the same vehicle underneath--same platform, same drivetrain, same footprint--yet one is a car and the other is a CUV, because it's entirely about the image. And by that metric, the Model Y is a CUV, not a car. It's been designed this way specifically to differentiate it from the Model 3.
The difference between the cars and CUVs in all your examples is ground clearance.

GM tried to market the Bolt as a Crossover and failed miserable because everyone could look at it and clearly see that it was a hatchback.

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Old 03-28-2019, 10:16 PM   #107 (permalink)
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The difference between the cars and CUVs in all your examples is ground clearance.
Yet, the EPA lists several vehicles as "SUVs" that fail this test, including the Hyundai Kona, Honda HR-V, Nissan Kicks, Buick Encore, Mazda CX-5, Toyota CH-R, Chevrolet Equinox (FWD), etc.

You can argue that technically a vehicle like the Equinox is an SUV when it's the AWD version with 7.9" ground clearance, and a car if it's FWD with only 7.6" until you're blue in the face; you're not going to change a potential buyer's mind who looks at an Equinox and sees an SUV regardless of what some arcane government regulation says.

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GM tried to market the Bolt as a Crossover and failed miserable because everyone could look at it and clearly see that it was a hatchback.
Toyota markets the CH-R as an SUV, and that seems to be going well enough for them; ditto for Tesla with the Model X, Honda with the HR-V, Hyundai with the Kona, and pretty much every other manufacturer. To reiterate, few to no car buyers care about the classification of their vehicle by one or more governments--they care about how it looks and how capable they perceive it to be based on what the company building it, advertisers, and car magazines tell them. Tesla says the Model Y is an SUV, so it is. As Slash Gear put it in an article addressing this very issue:

"The question, then, is whether the Model Y is sufficiently crossover in its design to win over those buyers.

I suspect the answer is yes. Though purists may argue that the new EV doesn’t exactly fit whatever official definition holds sway that day, the reality is that consumers have different priorities. The Model Y is a crossover because Tesla says it is, and because – side by side with the Model 3 – it’s bigger. The differences may be relatively subtle in comparison to what some automakers are doing, but not so much so that they dissuade too many sales."
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:58 AM   #108 (permalink)
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MPV was the word we were looking for. Despite the sloping back end, as the roof is quite high so that doesn't matter?

The Model Y will be a hell of a lot of MPV for a reasonable price, all things included.
Money for nothing?

I Want My MPV!

Or maybe a crossover-SUV after all.
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:30 PM   #109 (permalink)
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An SUV lets the owner pretend he's driving a truck without actually having to own a truck.
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:39 PM   #110 (permalink)
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An SUV lets the owner pretend he's driving a truck without actually having to own a truck.
The way I look at it (which is personal as has been pointed out)

An SUV has:
- the covered storage of a crew cab without the rear box
- more suspension travel than a car
- perhaps a bit more ground clearance than a car ... but must 'feel like' a higher driving position than a car
- enough towing capacity to haul at least a 2000 lb utility trailer (the 2018 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV failed this one) This one sort of ties into more suspension.

Did I miss an actual towing capacity for the Model Y ... or is it still rumors only?

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