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Old 03-29-2019, 08:34 PM   #111 (permalink)
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The way I look at it

An SUV has:
- enough storage capacity to cover the owner's imagined balls.
- enough towing capacity and power to haul the owner's imagined balls.
- enough ground clearance to... you get the picture.

If I had to do anything that I've seen in an SUV commercial, I could still do it in a car. My 5x8 utility trailer (bigger than 90% of pickup beds out there) can comfortably fit a yard and a half of topsoil. My little Subaru handled it just fine. Since I switched to the Fit, I've self limited to a yard. Topsoil, mulch, gravel, whatever. I don't know what they weigh, but the trailer is fine and so's the compact car.

Suspension travel is great for offroading. Doesn't happen much. What SUVs have is mass to let you ignore bumps. My first car was a 77 Sedan DeVille. It didn't have much travel, but it soaked up the bumps.

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Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

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Old 03-30-2019, 04:57 AM   #112 (permalink)
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... and enough imagined ruggedness to deal with the owners imagined adventures in an imagined wilderness.

The suspension is a thing - and the big wheels. I hired a pickup truck ('Peetchap' in Azorean Portuguese - we had no clue what we were getting ordering it over the phone) on one of my holidays when we could not get a car.
It had quite big wheels like a large SUV would. It was horrible in town but stellar out on the bad or unpaved roads in the mountains. I did no longer bother to miss the potholes, it hardly felt them.
Big and heavy helps deal with bad roads

The problem of course is that all those bigger and heavier vehicles degrade those bad roads even faster, so unless road maintenance ramps up even quicker than this trend it will lead to the destruction of the road system.
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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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Old 03-30-2019, 10:23 AM   #113 (permalink)
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But paying taxes for road maintenance won't showcase my manly ruggedness or wealth. SUVs it is!
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Old 03-30-2019, 02:28 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Uh-huh, like the base price of the Model 3 is $35k, and nobody has taken delivery on one of those yet?

I'm sure a few people will finally get the opportunity to buy a $40k Y, but as I've repeated, it will be at least a year after the initial launch. Besides all that, $40k is a heck of a lot of money for a vehicle. I've bought 4-unit property for $62k.

My guess is we are still at least a decade out from EVs being sold in quantities large enough to severely impact ICE sales.
A report by one analyst,was that ICE and EV would intersect in 2025,at price parity.That was pre-Trump,and with the roll-back on CAFE,this inflexion point could move.
And as the climate movie reels on towards the next act,there may be additional emphasis on a quicker transition away from pistons.
If I was in the proper demographic,I don't see how I could justify $60,000 for a Shelby Mustang,when I could get a lot of contemporary EV for less money.
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Old 03-31-2019, 10:19 AM   #115 (permalink)
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But paying taxes for road maintenance won't showcase my manly ruggedness or wealth. SUVs it is!
When your manliness causes big holes in the road, it is legit
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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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Old 04-07-2019, 02:53 PM   #116 (permalink)
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I think the point is made though that EVs are more expensive than their ICE counterparts, even if there is no exact counterpart. $40k buys a heck of a lot of car in the ICE world with no drawbacks should someone want to travel beyond the single "tank" range. They are also extremely reliable these days too. I've had nothing of note to mention maintenance wise from any of my ICE vehicles with exception of the truck and the Jeep I briefly owned (avoid Chrysler brands and you'll be fine).

...and I'll mention Tesla has no intention of selling $40k Model Y's, just as they have fought as hard as possible to not sell $35k Model 3s. Those that purchased 4 weeks ago with a 2-4 week delivery estimate are being told to expect another 4-6 weeks for for delivery. They are also getting called and asked if they want to spend another $2,500 for the + version. Clearly $40k is to get your attention, and not a realistic expectation of what will be available. I have no problem waiting long periods of time for something, but if Tesla called me and asked if I wanted a car sooner for $2,500 more, I'd tell them they have 1 week to deliver the car I have a placed a $2,500 earnest payment for, or they can keep their car and send me the $2,500 back. Slimy as hell.

For the public to widely adopt EVs, they have to either be way, way better in many regards than an ICE to make up for the extra cost and charging hassle, or the cost needs to come way down. Simply going faster isn't enough of a pull for the majority of people. Doesn't matter if it goes 0-60 in 2 seconds if the infrastructure to get you from point A to point B and C aren't there, or it's there, but you'll have to stop for an hour several times along the way.

We're getting a lot closer, and the uptick in EV sales is evidence of this, but we're not there yet.
I wouldn't say Tesla has no intention of selling a $35k at this point. Considering how different the interior is, my guess is they need more time to line everything up on their end and on their supplier end.

In addition, if Tesla can't deliver a $35k 3 someone orders, they can ask for and get their $2,500 back. The order payment only becomes non-refundable when the build process starts, and even in that situation I've read about people getting their money back when Tesla sells their car to someone else.
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:31 PM   #117 (permalink)
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I wouldn't say Tesla has no intention of selling a $35k at this point. Considering how different the interior is, my guess is they need more time to line everything up on their end and on their supplier end.

In addition, if Tesla can't deliver a $35k 3 someone orders, they can ask for and get their $2,500 back. The order payment only becomes non-refundable when the build process starts, and even in that situation I've read about people getting their money back when Tesla sells their car to someone else.
Except now it's official, they didn't deliver a single $35,000 car and now they won't. Getting your deposit back 2 years later is nice intrest free loan to a billion dollar company from average folks. Thanks, but if you were treated like this anywhere else you would be plenty peeved.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:35 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Except now it's official, they didn't deliver a single $35,000 car and now they won't. Getting your deposit back 2 years later is nice intrest free loan to a billion dollar company from average folks. Thanks, but if you were treated like this anywhere else you would be plenty peeved.
No, that is not true.
Thousands of people have configured and ordered a Standard range Model 3 for the $35,000 price and Tesla said it will honor those orders.
Most of them will get a Standard Plus Model 3, limited by software to Standard specs, for no extra cost.
Then there should be a small series of actual Standard Model 3s that were to be delivered this very weekend.

If you have proof it won't be prove it. If you just think they won't say so.
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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

When I drive a car I'm a driver. When I'm sitting on my couch I'm a biker.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:44 PM   #119 (permalink)
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No, that is not true.
Thousands of people have configured and ordered a Standard range Model 3 for the $35,000 price and Tesla said it will honor those orders.
Most of them will get a Standard Plus Model 3, limited by software to Standard specs, for no extra cost.
Then there should be a small series of actual Standard Model 3s that were to be delivered this very weekend.

If you have proof it won't be prove it. If you just think they won't say so.
To me the press release didn't say they would honor the price, but everything with Tesla is always clear as mud. I guess I'd love to see at least a link to a single new Tesla owner who paid $35,000 total and has a car in his garage.
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:13 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Some Tesla buyers report being told their SR is ready for pickup. Others got a date this month.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...146897/page-10

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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

When I drive a car I'm a driver. When I'm sitting on my couch I'm a biker.

Last edited by RedDevil; 04-13-2019 at 06:19 PM..
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