Thinking out loud, large cars

[solarguy]

Hey, get what you want.

But, unfortunately, there are no free lunches.

I drive an 04 jetta, with diesel. In my opinion, which is all I have to work with, the brakes and the steering/suspension/handling on my car are superb. It has air bags all over the freaking place. I feel safe. Getting ~50 mpg is just icing on the cake. The ride is firm, but not silly or aggressive/harsh.

Last time I visited my parents, I drove their Buick around for a bit. I felt like I was wallowing in a tug boat. But they report that they routinely get 30+ mpg on the back roads of missouri. And it is a somewhat bigger car. They feel safe.

Statistically, who knows who is really safer over all??

Oil and fuel are both going to get scarce whether you drive the Crown Vicky or the flyweight econo-honda.

The bottom line is, whatever you decide to drive, your driving habits and economodder tricks will make it as fuel efficient as possible.

I have reservations that you will ever achieve 30, but it's possible if you do all the tricks.

Knock yourself out.

Finest regards,

troy

[Clev]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I doubt a Vic would average anything north of 26 without lots of hypermiling. Might get lucky and hit 30 on a long trip. Downhill. With a tailwind.

I averaged 24 mpg (80% freeway) in a 2003 Town Car with three passengers and a trunkload of cargo. That was with the cruise at 72 and A/C blasting the whole time. The freeway portions were typically 26-28 mpg. The Crown Vic, being a smaller aero target and without the luxury bits, could probably average 26 overall.

That said, you really can't beat those 3800's. A Buick Century would probably be a good compromise in the luxo/size/mileage race.

[2000mc]

hoping for 30mpg, i think you'll have alot more luck with the 3800's than the crown vic

city/hwy for '01 buicks
crown vic 16/23
regal 17/28
lesabre 17/27
park ave. 17/27
century 18/26 the century is not available with a 3.8, but only a 3.1 i'm guessing it has shorter gears hurting the hwy mpg

on the highway the 3800s have a 4-5mpg head start, if you could squeeze 30 out of a crown vic, you could squeeze 35 out of a 3800 about as easily

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

hoping for 30mpg, i think you'll have alot more luck with the 3800's than the crown vic

city/hwy for '01 buicks
crown vic 16/23
regal 17/28
lesabre 17/27
park ave. 17/27
century 18/26 the century is not available with a 3.8, but only a 3.1 i'm guessing it has shorter gears hurting the hwy mpg

on the highway the 3800s have a 4-5mpg head start, if you could squeeze 30 out of a crown vic, you could squeeze 35 out of a 3800 about as easily

I'd prefer a Regal over the Century, just because they came with more luxury features (more likely to have leather, etc.) Certainly, it's far more likely for any Buick to have been owned by the proverbial little old lady who only drove it to church, which is another point in that marque's favor.

Note, though that the Regal LS has the 3800 naturally aspirated V6. The Regal GS will have the 3800 supercharged V6, trading a little less fuel economy for a little more HP (and a lot more TQ). The supercharged application will have a little more in the way of maintenance requirements, too. RegalGS.org is one forum to look at for info on Buicks.

By the way, I in no way intended my earlier posts to be taken as ridiculing the idea of getting a larger vehicle. All I was questioning was whether or not the Crown Vic was the best choice in terms of full sized cars (especially when fuel economy is a factor,) when the slightly smaller (but still full sized,) GM "W" bodies with the 3800 V6 tended to have better performance, handling, and fuel economy.

At the end of the day, as the guy above said, buy what you want, drive it, and be happy.

[fud2468]

Thanks again for the time you've taken in making these replies.
Your info in favor of the 3.8's is very persuasive. Actually I would prefer a pushrod engine anyway, and after some more searching I've learned that there's a proneness to premature wear on timing chain tensioners and guides on the OHC 4.6 Ford engines, particularly from 2000 on. Can be a serious problem since the 4.6 is an interference engine. It's scary to see a cutaway pic of the timing chain setup on the Fords and the tortuous path those long chains have to follow.
Back to the drawing board. My Crown Vic interest is waning as much because of possible maintenance/repair costs as because of FE factors.
Ray Mac

[jkp1187]

There are two maintenance issues with the 3.8L W bodies I can think of off the top of my head.

(1) The lower intake manifold gasket tends to leak as the car gets older. Expect to pay ~ $400-$800 to have a shop replace it.
(2) The intermediate steering shaft has a tendency to make a tapping noise if it is insufficiently lubricated. You can pay $5.00 for a lube kit from GM, and it'll go away for a while. Eventually, when this stops working, expect to pay ~ $200 to have a shop replace it.

[2000mc]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

There are two maintenance issues with the 3.8L W bodies I can think of off the top of my head.

(1) The lower intake manifold gasket tends to leak as the car gets older. Expect to pay ~ $400-$800 to have a shop replace it.
(2) The intermediate steering shaft has a tendency to make a tapping noise if it is insufficiently lubricated. You can pay $5.00 for a lube kit from GM, and it'll go away for a while. Eventually, when this stops working, expect to pay ~ $200 to have a shop replace it.

#1 upper intake/TB gaskets are the most common. also the egr can burn up the upper intake by the coolant passages for the TB heater. lower intake gaskets, coolant elbow, water pump ... i wouldnt say any more common than the next vehicle. redesigned upper intake and TB gaskets came out several years ago that hold up better than originals.(on my moms 03 lesabre i replaced the upper + TB gasket at 35k mi, under warr. with over 110k now theyre still holding)

thats the series II, series III got an aluminum upper intake, i dont believe i've seen a coolant leak on one yet.
series I didnt have the upper intake issues of the series II either

#2 steering shafts... GM sucks here trucks vans cars. common on W body, more rare on H body, very rare/non issue on C body. do lube the shaft if the cheapy kit is available for your car. if the noise is not stoped, or returns in less than 5000miles. repeat...but follow provided directions. (wifes monte carlo was purchased w/110k , shaft was horribly loud, lubed, still quiet at 158k roughly 5yrs later)

[Clev]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

century 18/26 the century is not available with a 3.8, but only a 3.1 i'm guessing it has shorter gears hurting the hwy mpg

You're right, my bad. The 3.1L I drove was pretty nice as well.

[zjrog]

I'm not sure I would safety and Crown Vic in the same sentence. A lot of people have died in police Vics, from fires when rear ended. Ford did try and mitigate the issue. And, it isn't likely you will be on the side of the road writing tickets either.

It is fun to watch folks slow down with a P71 CV in the rearview mirrors...

[BorderPatrolE3091]

Originally Posted by zjrog

I'm not sure I would safety and Crown Vic in the same sentence. A lot of people have died in police Vics, from fires when rear ended

(most of)Those rear-end fires you mentioned were from people rear-ending the patrol cars while the officer was parked on the side of the highway. Also, more rear-end collisions occurred that did not result in fires than those that did. It's more of an issue of vehicle use rather than vehicle design.

Originally Posted by zjrog

And, it isn't likely you will be on the side of the road writing tickets either.

No, it isn't

Originally Posted by zjrog

It is fun to watch folks slow down with a P71 CV in the rearview mirrors...

It certainly is...

Also, I am less likely to be hit, from any angle, in the P71. Most people respect a Crown Vic more than any other car on the road. They slow down and drive right. All-in-all, it's a great car and I'd recommend a Crown Vic to anyone wanting a good car.