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Old 10-12-2009, 01:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
People (especially Americans) have become "sissyfied" in these times and complain about everything. I used to work in a very large Dealership and would see these kinds of people daily. They complain about the stupidest things and if they don't get a satisfactory response, they go complain to corporate headquarters until they can be pacified with money or something else.

I remember this lady who complained that if she held both her power window buttons in the "UP" position, the driver window was 1/2 a second slower than the other. The poor tech was told to replace motors, then regulators, then weatherstripping, and it came to a point the driver window became slightly faster, so we delivered it. Next day she came in complaining about it and said she did not want it till it was fixed right.

As a Team Leader, I decided to put and end to this waste of time and money and confronted her with the issue. I took her to the showroom where there was a whole line of identical cars. I made her try all the windows and they all had different results.

"Sorry lady, but these windows were not designed to be timed or designed to have the speed changed in them. Frankly, I think your complaint is not going to allow any more warranty repairs since there is nothing wrong with your car and we done all we could to satisfy your needs."

She ended up demanding the phone number for corporate from our manager after that. I have no idea what the outcome was of this, but I think it was one of the biggest wasted jobs that ever came to our team.

I have many similar stories like this one to share from my daily experiences and may start a new thread for that. It's just crazy what people are complaining about.
You know what they say about opinions/a--h-les. BTW, what's this got to do with the thread?

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Old 10-12-2009, 01:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Actually...

My comment was on topic and completely relevant to this thread. I was just poking fun at the nutters who think an EMF from a Prius could be harmful, just like the rest of the comments on this thread. Specifically I was pointing out that fear of such a thing would be about as insane as believing that CIA can read your thoughts, etc. Obviously any EMF from a Prius won't do any damage to anybody. If somehow it did, by that logic, MRIs would be fatal.

Humor is so much funnier when you don't have to explain it.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:35 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twerp View Post
My comment was on topic and completely relevant to this thread. I was just poking fun at the nutters who think an EMF from a Prius could be harmful, just like the rest of the comments on this thread. Specifically I was pointing out that fear of such a thing would be about as insane as believing that CIA can read your thoughts, etc. Obviously any EMF from a Prius won't do any damage to anybody. If somehow it did, by that logic, MRIs would be fatal.

Humor is so much funnier when you don't have to explain it.
The problem is that it isn't obvious. Actually, there is no definitive answer on the harmful effects of EMF. To state "a Prius won't do any damage to anyone" is an opinion of yours, not a fact. Any disinformation such as that statement, whether it proves to be true or not, is still for now, you're opinion with nothing to substantiate it and misleading to people reading it. I'm not saying you're wrong, just you're statement is, for now. BTW, just because people have concerns that you don't think are relevant, does not make them nuts. Remember, at one time everyone thought the world was flat and anyone who thought differently was whacked. How wrong that turned out to be.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The point here is that EMF is already generated in every ICE vehicle by the alternator. Furthermore EMF in a hybrid is sufficiently distant from the driver/passengers and shielded by sheet metal for any emf reaching the occupants to be miniscule. Considering most people use cell phones the thought that EMF from an electric car could be dangerous is laughable. Do you use an electric stove? Better wear a lead apron. Wait... lead is poisonous...

If you are afraid of very low frequency EMF (you shouldn't be) better not use the following:
vacuum cleaner
electric stove
computer
baseboard heaters
hair dryer
power tools
cell phone
cordless phone
electricity
etc.

I'm not saying exteremely high EMF is not dangerous, just that EMF from an electric car is very small compared to may other sources that we encounter every day.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've sat in a Prius with the gauges in hand to measure EMF and the alarm system was the worst thing, the drive train and inverter is all on the other side of a steel fire wall (better then a tin foil hat), next most harmful thing I saw in the car? the LDC screen that give you info about what the car is doing.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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It's also laughable to be afraid of EMF in the context of driving which is without a doubt extremely dangerous. It's like saying "I won't fly in an aeroplane because we might get hit by an meteor."
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange4boy View Post
The point here is that EMF is already generated in every ICE vehicle by the alternator. Furthermore EMF in a hybrid is sufficiently distant from the driver/passengers and shielded by sheet metal for any emf reaching the occupants to be miniscule. Considering most people use cell phones the thought that EMF from an electric car could be dangerous is laughable. Do you use an electric stove? Better wear a lead apron. Wait... lead is poisonous...
You don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange4boy View Post
The point here is that EMF is already generated in every ICE vehicle by the alternator. Furthermore EMF in a hybrid is sufficiently distant from the driver/passengers and shielded by sheet metal for any emf reaching the occupants to be miniscule. Considering most people use cell phones the thought that EMF from an electric car could be dangerous is laughable. Do you use an electric stove? Better wear a lead apron. Wait... lead is poisonous...

If you are afraid of very low frequency EMF (you shouldn't be) better not use the following:
vacuum cleaner
electric stove
computer
baseboard heaters
hair dryer
power tools
cell phone
cordless phone
electricity
etc.

I'm not saying exteremely high EMF is not dangerous, just that EMF from an electric car is very small compared to may other sources that we encounter every day.
Actually, I'm almost electric free. I leave breakers off on areas I don't use, gotten rid of cellphone, use a plug in (with cord) phone. I also barbeque all year round (using the stove as minimal as possible), no microwave, no hairdryer. The list goes on to eliminate what I perceive (since there is no definitive conclusion, which by the way, seems pretty peculiar in its own right) to be "non-beneficial" to a healthier lifestyle. You're argument has no merit. You make it nearly impossible for anyone to have a comment against EMF, using the angle that if you have any electrical device, you're a hypocrite (trap argument). BTW, you also thinks its ok to compound the problem with possibly more problems. Why have a half glass of poison when we can top it up with a full one, or, even have two. You see, I'm trying to eliminate problems, not add them. Feel free to do as you wish, but, don't state "opinions" as "facts".
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Malus,
Factually speaking, what effect do EMFs have and by what mechanism do they cause these effects?
Strictly by the facts, low frequency EMFs are non-ionizing. Therefore, by definition, they cannot interfere with or cause chemical reactions. Additionally, in the frequency range applicable, they are not able to cause tissue heating (like microwaves or radiowaves). Finally, their ability to penetrate the skin is VERY limited.
Given the above facts (and they are verifiable, testable facts), how do low frequency EMFs adversely affect humans?
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryland View Post
I've sat in a Prius with the gauges in hand to measure EMF
What gauges were those, a gaussmeter? A compass? a needle in a bowl of water?

I've had formal training in measuring EMFs and RF radiation and determining safe distances for controlled exposure and uncontrolled exposure. Anyone concerned about the level of EMFs in their Prius is either seriously under-informed or a complete raving lunatic. I'm hoping for most people it's the former. Given the prevelence of EMFs in the industrialized world, and that the Prius' steel body works as a Faraday cage, you'll find the overall exposure to electromagnetic fields much lower INSIDE the car than OUTSIDE. It works so well, in fact, that there is no FCC mandated rules concerning the power levels of mobile radio installations.. in other words, if you installed a big radio transmitter on your car, you wouldn't be able to supply it enough power to create a field large enough to worry about inside the car due to the shielding of the vehicle body. Also realize the strength of the field falls off at the inverse square of distance from the source. So if you double the distance, the strength will be 1/4. At the power levels inside the Prius, you are talking about being in negligible numbers within a few inches. I'm willing to bet even close proximity is well below acceptable limits.

I'm willing to bet the 50k-100k watt AM stations in most cities or the 60Hz power grid are subjecting you to a much larger power density in your everyday activities than you are receiving inside your Prius. I'd put money it's lower overall inside the car.

With that said.. People have been working in high RF and EMF environments for over 100 years now, enough to know that the only major danger is that of tissue heating.. that's just not going to happen in a Prius. Neither is your wifi going to have any effect. Safe exposure levels drop with increased frequency, however, and I do think it's prudent to limit cellphone usage (usually in the low microwave range) when you are holding it right against your head until we see some more information on that. But for low frequency fields, we've got tons and tons of data to know exactly what the effects will be- Negligible for most of humanity.

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