Urba Centurion #4

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by GreenHornet

Yes this motor is reversible with the proper controller. It is a permanent magnet AC motor.

Great update GreenHornet!
This is certainly shaping up to be a very interesting build. Looking forward to seeing the assembled drivetrain. Keep up the good work!!!!
~CrazyJerry

[GreenHornet]

Hey gang,

It has been a little while since I have last posted so I figured it's not a bad time for an update.

What you guys are looking at in the pics is an intercooled Electric Lysholm Supercharger. This is not one of those silly E-Ram Electric superchargers that produce 1 hp This is a very efficient supercharger that is setup for 10psi of boost via a Sprag Clutch and when desired can be electrically boosted via the 35lb ME0709 Brushed DC motor to upwards of 20psi of Boost. Due to the design the electric motor when the electric boost is not engaged pulls double duty and works as the cars alternator providing all the necessary 12V accessory power for onboard components. We will also be running a small water methanol injection system. This will help us build power, Help control Exhaust Gas Temps, and Keep the Engine steam cleaned.

These components were chosen due to the fact they were inexpensive yet easily obtained. The Supercharger my friend had lying around and thought it would be the perfect Supercharger to test out on the Centurion so he sold it to me for $200. At first we were going to use an Eaton M45 because he had one of those also but later decided to go with a Lysholm found in the Mazda Millenia S cars. This Supercharger is around 75% efficient and can provide upwards of 18psi of boost before it starts loosing efficiency. These are far more efficient than the Eaton units especially when you are running over 7psi.

Once we decided on the Lysholm Supercharger we needed to find a robust E-motor that could cram a lot of air into it. It did not take me long to find a solid candidate. I found the ME0709 on Ebay for $220. The motor had been lightly used and met my power requirements and it happened to be brushed. This greatly simplified the control of the E-motor as I could use a simple low cost contactor instead of having to purchase a high cost controller. The motor peaks at 19hp and 72V.

We are expecting some pretty serious torque and HP gains across the entire power curve with this setup. While we don't know for sure how much power increases we will see it is fair to say the gains should put the Z482 up over 20HP pretty easily.

These Power gains however come at a cost. That cost is in the form of added weight. When its all said and done the complete system will probably weigh in at around 125lbs. This is a lot of added weight but if done properly the Electric Supercharger can add some really great unique characteristics to the Centurion that will give it greater appeal and performance potential. People might ask why I just didn't use a bigger engine to begin with adding all this weight and complexity. My reason is I get the fuel sipping economy advantage using the 2 cylinder 482cc engine yet with the Electric Supercharger we get the power of a D1105 and quite possibly upwards of what you might see in the D1105-T models. The Supercharger allows us to boost our low end torque which we need since we are using a taller overdrive with the Volvo unit and a smaller engine with the Z482 than what the original plans call for. Boosting low end torque enables us to get into overdrive quicker and stay in the tallest gear for longer thus increasing our fuel economy potential.

These were my main reasons for wanting to implement an electric supercharger into the design. Also I just always wanted to test one out and since I have a friend who knows everything there is to know about them I figured why not I am in good hands. Plus its just plain super cool to say your car is Electric Supercharged Not many people can say that and as far as I know this will be a first for a Centurion.

One thing that Mr. Riley has mentioned before and quote " Jerry, A few posts back you asked if I had any input that might help others. There's no sliver bullet, but if I had to pick one thing, it would be to recommend that folks stick with a diesel and install a turbocharger. Both the Centurion and the new XR3 are naturally aspirated diesels. But diesels love turbochargers. A turbocharger will increase power output and reduce fuel consumption too (improve bsfc - make the engine more efficient)."

I have nothing against Turbo charging and in the right application Turbo charging is the better choice over the Supercharger. However in this application with a very small diesel the Supercharger wins hands down and by adding electric on demand boost we expand what is possible and create a car that has a system similar to cars with NOS except ours costs much less to operate and lasts much longer

Once I get everything cleaned up, painted and mounted I will update with some better pics.

GH

[changzuki]

Wow! Very interesting update GreenHornet. This may be a first with the Z482. I'm not sure, but I think the height of the Z482 is right inline with the D850 so I'm curious how the general layout fits into Centurion's engine compartment.

The supercharger will be driven electrically so jumping ahead, you'll be using lithium or some variation of - for the batteries - is this correct? And they in turn will provide power for the ME0709 Brushed DC motor to drive the supercharger.. So if you use say 72 volts to drive that motor, and then afterward when it is engaged as the charger for the batteries, you must be using (and here is what I'm focusing on) "what" to regulate the output of the ME0709 while it is a battery charger?
This may be jumping the gun but it's very interesting what you're doing so trying to connect the dots as to how this will all work together is kinda fun!

Keep up the great work!
~CrazyJerry

[GreenHornet]

Hey CJ,

Great questions I will do my best to answer. So firstly Yes I will be using Lithium battery chemistry to power the Electric Supercharger. The ME0709 can be run at voltages from 24 to 72 Volts.

Here is the basic electric motor specs:

The ME0709 is a Brush-type Permanent Magnet DC motor. Light weight, high efficiency design. Designed for 24-72 VDC battery operated equipment. Capable of 300 amps peak and 125 amps continuous. Totally open, fan cooled motor. Similar in performance to the Perm-motor 132 and the Lemco or Lynch LEM-200 motors.

Specifications

Power: 8 cont-- 19 pk hp
Voltage: 72 Volt rated
Speed: 3700 rpm @ 72v unloaded
Size: 8" OD, 6.5" long (w/o shaft)
Shaft: 7/8"x 1-3/4", 3/16" key
Weight: 36 lbs.

[Baltothewolf]

Greenhornet, would that supercharger work on a 999cc engine from an insight if built similar to yours?

[GreenHornet]

This is pretty complicated stuff to understand so I am going to try to explain in laymen's terms so that everyone can grasp the basics of how this will work.

First the Supercharger is set up to be driven by the Kubota diesel and the Electric motor. This way I am always generating roughly 11hp from the Kubota driven supercharger. This improves the little Kubota across the entire power band. Now at the same time the electric motor is acting as the alternator just like in a normal car. In order to control the electric motor you can use basic contactor or you can utilize a brushed motor controller. I most likely will go with the controller as it offers several advantages over a basic contactor such as regenerative braking. A perfect controller match for this motor can be found here = KDZ72301,24V-72V,300A,PM with Regen - Kelly Controls, LLC

The other cool thing about this controller is that it can also provide a 12V outlet so this enables you to now use it to power all of your 12V onboard accessories. This also eliminates the need for you to purchase a separate DC/DC converter. Another cool feature is the ability to deactivate the electric motor similar to an alternator kill switch. This enables you to only run the electric motor when needed such as when the battery power is depleted.

The charging of the battery bank will be provided by an onboard charger. This enables the battery bank to be charged while the electric motor is in generator mode. Here is a good example of a charger that could be used with a 72V setup = F7210-72V/10A Charger - Kelly Controls, LLC

Now the really awesome thing about this setup is that not only is the Lysholm Supercharger being driven by the Kubota but it also can be boosted by the electric motor when more extreme power levels are required. The electric Boost will be controlled via a sensor on the throttle. This way it will kick in seamlessly based on the depression of the throttle instead of having a separate switch to engage. Once the throttle is depressed to a certain degree the electric motor will switch from generator mode to electric boost mode. Also tied into this will be the Water/Meth injection system which will also kick in when the electric boost is engaged

I hope that this explanation helps shed some light as to how the Supercharger will work and some of its unique abilities. As things move along I will provide more details along with pics showing how it is all connected and operates.

GH

[GreenHornet]

Originally Posted by Baltothewolf

Greenhornet, would that supercharger work on a 999cc engine from an insight if built similar to yours?

Yes absolutely in fact my friend that helped me with the build had an Insight believe it or not and was going to build this exact electric supercharger setup for it. So it is funny you ask me this question because my friend and I were just talking about his Insight the other day in fact This setup can be configured to run on just about any car with an ICE given the right amount of space.

[samwichse]

Waaaay back on the subject of air conditioning:

DIY Controller for '04-'09 Prius A/C Compressor - DIY Electric Car Forums

He was able to run a Prius AC compressor at 2k rpms @ 50v, 4k rpms @ 68v.

Pick up a cheap used part and build the controller yourself? Lets you place the compressor pretty much anywhere you want it and not pull engine power to do AC if you are using a plugin hybrid model.

Sam

[GreenHornet]

Originally Posted by changzuki

Wow! Very interesting update GreenHornet. This may be a first with the Z482. I'm not sure, but I think the height of the Z482 is right inline with the D850 so I'm curious how the general layout fits into Centurion's engine compartment.

Keep up the great work!
~CrazyJerry

Yes this as far as I know will be the first Electrically Supercharged Z482. However this is not the first boosted Z482. Many have experimented with Turbo charges on these engines with varied success.

Here is a link of a guy using a GT1748V off a Golf TDI AFN engine on his Z482 =https://

[GreenHornet]

Here is another video of a small engine in a small car that is turbocharged. If anyone was wondering if you could get good performance out of a small engine then check out how this car moves Granted this is not a diesel engine but if done correctly a small diesel can be boosted safely and have the performance of a much larger engine due to there beefy construction. The trick is to not only add air but also fuel! In my case with the electric supercharger the extra fuel comes from the Lithium batteries as well as the water/meth injection system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIgfeJ4tj9E