Vetterizing my 2013 Zero S ZF11.4

[Xist]

Originally Posted by Burton

Going with a green box 250ex and buying a WP20 torch @ 25' w/ superflex cord, stubby lense kit, extra tig 2% ceriated @ 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, gloves, miller 9000 helmet, some filler rod for mild steel 10lbs, water cooling unit (again green box), a tig finger, and a nema 15-50p plug so I can wire up the green box. Comes out to under 3k but close to it >_<

Yet you are not finished...

I did not have any idea welding was that expensive!

[jkv357]

Originally Posted by Burton

It looks like there will be a welder in my near future.

Vetter was looking at my bracket concept using only machine screws and said it wouldn't stand up to the forces involved likely sheering while in use.
He said I needs to be welded and to find a welder. Granted he was talking about finding someone who can weld but I have been meaning to learn for a long time now.

So knowing this project might require welding I am actually already a month into research but I think i will pull the trigger shortly.

Going with a green box 250ex and buying a WP20 torch @ 25' w/ superflex cord, stubby lense kit, extra tig 2% ceriated @ 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, gloves, miller 9000 helmet, some filler rod for mild steel 10lbs, water cooling unit (again green box), a tig finger, and a nema 15-50p plug so I can wire up the green box. Comes out to under 3k but close to it >_<

I am likely missing something in the list. I realize I need long sleeves when welding and I should be protecting my neck from radiation as well. I already sent out requests to electricians to get a 15-50p 50am 240v outlet installed outside my breaker box but that will likely cost $350 but I can use it for my bike as well. ^_^

Good times.

Do you have any welding experience? The equipment you listed is pretty high-end for an inexperienced fabricator.

If you are planning to weld mostly mild steel, a MIG set-up is a ton less - and a lot easier to learn. TIG welding, especially on aluminum, is not something you can learn in a weekend.

I would take a welding night-class at a local Technical College if you are serious about welding.

As far as MIGs go, there are a lot of choices for the hobbyist. You don't need a Miller to do good work. Hobart is the consumer brand of Miller, and can handle most anything but all-day welding. I would get a proper MIG set-up with shielding gas and not the flux-core wire set-up.

I'm not a professional welder by any means, but I have done a fair amount of structural automotive MIG welding and some TIG welding of stainless and chrome moly. I have a Hobart welder at home and a Miller TIG available.

I would be interested in hearing opinions from more experienced welders, but it seemed to me that you were looking at equipment that was quite a bit more advanced than what you would need to complete your project.

[Burton]

I don't think it is more than what I need it is likely just right. I figured I would start with mild steel first then transition into aluminum.

The machine is a 250amp AC/DC with enough options where I won't have to buy another machine unless I start to do it professionally.

That is just how I buy things, so they will grow with me and not hinder or limit my ambitions. In the land of welders most will say buy the most you can afford because you will likely regret going small later. I could have used a welder so many times in the last three years for other projects on my ninja 250. To me it is a long term purchase.

I forgot to include an argon tank in the mix which will likely run me $350ish

For this project I likely will not end up welding aluminum but I will likely replace components of this project later with aluminum to save weight as I bring up my skill level. Also I should note I don't need this to complete my project, it is a want not a need, as I can find a local welder to weld up my pieces for me.

And I am sure with a little bit more thought I could figure out a way to do the project without welding even that part. In fact I just thought of one A very simple modification too, just make it all one piece instead of a two part bracket system. Of course this assumes a single 1/8 piece of mild steel could live up to the stresses without cross bracing. I will run the idea past Vetter.

[PeterS]

Full protective gear, legs, arms, neck hands, face and eyes Burton. The UV output will give you skin cancer.

[Burton]

Originally Posted by PeterS

Full protective gear, legs, arms, neck hands, face and eyes Burton. The UV output will give you skin cancer.

Here is my complete list with prices for those interested. Also I blieve I have everything above but if you feel I should be getting something more than thick blue jeans, a thick long sleeve shirt, and a neck protector let me know.

• Pass & Seymour 3867CC5 Angle Plug Three Pole Four Wire 30-Amp/50-Amp 125-volt/250-volt $16.77ea
• TIG Finger Heat Shield $14.99
• CK CK20-25SF FX Torch Pkg 250A 25' Flex. 3 pc SuperFlex $130.53
• 2014 Everlast PowerTig 250EX AC DC TIG STICK Pulse welder 220/240 Volt Inverter-Based AC DC $1550.00
• Everlast PowerCool W300 Water Cooler $397.16
• CK SGL-KITM Accessory Kit -Stubby Gas Lens. 4GL- 1/16, 3/32, 1/8 $66.57
• CK T187GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode Ceriated 1/8" X 7" Pkg = 3 $12.70
• CK T1167GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode 1/16" X 7" Pkg = 3 $4.49
• CK T3327GC2-3 2% Ceriated Tungsten Electrode 3/32" X 7" Pkg = 3 $7.74
• Miller 256176 Titanium 9400 Industrial Welding Helmet $297.12
• Tillman 24C Top Grain Kidskin 4" Cuff TIG Welding Gloves, Medium $9.96
• Weldcote Metals ER70S-2 1/8" X 36" Tig Welding Rod 10 Lbs. $23.33
• 200cuft tank ~$250
• Electrician to install 14-50p outlet (since I don't want to be liable for burning the house down) ~$300
• Total ~ 3081.36

Ok so maybe not under 3k since I need to pay electrician for outlet install lol Wonder if I punch the holes, install the wires but dont screw anything down, install the breaker and simply have him screw them together if it would be far less ?

[user removed]

That would pay for 60 hours of my brother (retired welder) working for you. He lives in eastern Va. including all supplies, tig, steel, stainless, titanium, aluminum. Bring the work to him or pay him for half the travel distance at the same rate. He welded titanium jet engine compressor blades for the Navy, aluminum missile containers for the Navy, LNG ship hull sections for NN shipyard, nuclear work also.

regards
Mech

[Michael Moore]

I've got a Miller 250DX and something that size is likely to be as large as you'll ever need.

One thing to keep in mind about welding aluminum is you'll be fully annealed in the area of the weld. Steel is much more forgiving, 1018/1020 (which is all you really need) is relatively inexpensive, easy to find and easy to weld and a steel structure very likely can end up just as light or lighter if you do it right. Plus, if kept below the fatigue limit steel can be cycled pretty much forever where every cycle on aluminum brings it one step closer to failure.

So consider steel for structure and keep aluminum for low-stress parts like fuel/oil tanks, bodywork, etc.

You can buy a fire-retardant lightweight cloth welding jacket pretty reasonably and that will give you arm/neck coverage. If you are TIGing you shouldn't need thick leathers to protect you from molten metal blown out of the weld pool.

I've heard that some of the Miller helmets use a proprietary battery so you might want to check that out.

cheers,
Michael

[PeterS]

Old Mechanic's suggestion is a good one.

I weld and even do OK in some positions but I tend to cut out the steel, dress the edges and do all the prep then take it to my local shop if I need a really neat job. I've found that for complex constructions a model in timber or ply, glued with hot glue is a very good way of assuring I get precisely what I need .

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Burton

I don't think it is more than what I need it is likely just right. I figured I would start with mild steel first then transition into aluminum.

Welding alu is far more involved than welding mild steel.

You can get a lot of work done for the kind of money you'd want to spend on it.

[aluminumwelder]

You'd be better off posting your welding question on a welding forum like weldingweb.com
there are many helpful people over there.
I have a ton of customer orders to get done so I'll make this quick, I'd spend a LOT less if I were you on welding gear if you only use it occassionally like once a week or less.
alphatig | eBay
ahp alphatig goes on ebay or amazon for $700
ceriated tungstens are ok, but 2% blue lanthinated are much better, especially for aluminum. A $100 welding helmet will work fine, the $300 ones are really not that much better. Heck even a $60 harbor freight one is fine! IMHO.

I have a DVD on basic tig welding I can mail you, just PM me your address.

when I get some time I will watch all your youtube videos and read this whole thread, it's a very cool project. one I hope to do with my zero one day.