"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!

[tjts1]

The 1.4 liter engine is hardly the big weight hog in this thing. This car has 1 ICE, 1 full size generator 1 full size electric motor and a whole lot of batteries. The car is hauling around 3 motors but only 1 can power the wheels. A 100hp electric generator is a huge heavy beast but all it does is function as a transmission component. Hardly an efficient use of space and weight. The Prius drive train makes a lot more sense. I would be happy if in the volt they replaced the ICE and generator with more batteries and it had a 100 mile EV only range. Also i'm surprised that they chose to NOT use A123 cells.

The series hybrid is fundamentally flawed in a car. Parallel is the way to go.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

Originally Posted by tjts1

The series hybrid is fundamentally flawed in a car. Parallel is the way to go.

I disagree -- a well designed serial hybrid could have a 250cc-500cc 2-cylinder ICE or a microturbine that weighs at most 1/4 as much as the 1.4L 4-cylinder used in the Volt. Please remember that in a serial hybrid, the engine/power plant can be run at a single speed, where it is run at it's maximum efficiency.

Examples of what I am referring to:

The prototype Mini hybrid with 640HP (four in-wheel 160HP electric motors) that used a 250cc 2-cylinder gasoline engine -- it got ~85mpg. Just imagine what MPG it would get with four mere 40HP electric motors in each wheel?

The Aptera 2h is supposed to have a ~15HP ICE that gets 130mpg at worst.

The Ford S-Max 7-seat chassis that has a Capstone micro turbine charger, and gets ~67mpg: Ford S-Max based micro-turbine plug-in series hybrid [w/VIDEO] — Autoblog Green

Compare these to the Volt which is reported to get ~50mpg while in charging mode. The Cruze XFE is supposed to get 44mpg -- the Volt gets a whole 6mpg better!

The simplicity of a well designed serial hybrid has many advantages over the complexity of a Prius-like parallel hybrid. A serial hybrid with a micro turbine has about 4 to 6 moving parts. If in-wheel motors are used, the physical layout of the chassis can be easily optimized for efficiency. The fuel-burning engine can be used at it's maximum efficiency, and therefore it's size and weight can be minimized -- and the size and weight of the fuel tank can also be minimized.

And the result of all the size and weight savings results in either reducing the size and cost of the battery pack required and/or the range of the EV-only is increased -- and the charging time of the battery is also improved.

[dcb]

I agree w/TJ, if driven properly the direct drive wins. I'd much rather cruise my extended range journies at bsfc peak with direct drive than bsfc peak turning a generator driving a motor.

Use the electric for non bsfc zones and to up the load to recharge/get back to bsfc.

Ideally you would never charge your battery w/an ice.

If you are trying to idiot proof it, then it aint for me.

[tjts1]

Niel
All of your examples are either heavy pigs or in the case of the Aptera, technically a motorcycle that seats 2 and doesn't have to meet any crash testing standards. Its not a flaw of GMs design here. It simply doesn't make sense to cram into one vehicle:
ICE
Generator
electric motor or motors
40 miles worth of batteries.
The displacement and weight of the ICE is irrelevant by comparison to the inefficiencies built into the series hybrid. No matter what engine you put into it, it will still be a 4000 lb car compact car. I would rather ditch the ICE all together and have a pure electric that goes 100 miles.

[gone-ot]

...weight is a KILLER to both FE and acceleration/deceleration.

...thought came to mind about those "overy-thick padded seats"--how about using pneumatic (air blow-up) seats?

...air & baloon-fabric (over steel frame) would certainly weigh much less than totally metal & foam seats...and, with "compartmenting" could be "individualized" to custom fit the gamut of driver butts.

P.S.--is that BIG RED BUTTON in the picture the "PANIC BUTTON"?

[cfg83]

Old Tele man -

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...

P.S.--is that BIG RED BUTTON in the picture the "PANIC BUTTON"?

Yup, we have those on the equipment where I work. It would make sense (to me) for the test vehicle to have one. Ha ha, I should install a dummy one in my car for fun.

CarloSW2

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by cfg83

Frank -



Ha ha, my Dad had an 87 Escort GT too. It converted him from a Chevy man to a Ford man (ZX2 right now). One problem with both Fords is the (IMO) as-it-aged ratchety manual tranny. The Escort GT suffered the CPU overheat-die-off. It went maybe 3 times on the GT, once on the freeway.

CarloSW2

Re: 87 Escort GT

I don't think my 87 Escort GT would of converted anyone, but it was amazing to me, that a car that looked a lot like a Chevette could go so fast. It only had a 2.2 L HO engine, and these were days that 4 cylinders were often laughed at for being too slow. One sunny July the 4th I picked up my step-son and had a bunch of fire-crackers laying in plain view in the back seat (not legal) when I got clocked speeding on the interstate. My radar detector beeped in heavy traffic and I see the cop pulling out behind me, I was in the far right lane. I tried to slow down by gearing-down so my brake lights would not reflect my guilt of speeding with a radar detector. As soon as I geared down to 4th my foot slipped off the Clutch pedal and I stripped out gears 3 to 5 before I could get slowed down to the PS. I pulled off at the next exit, and I'll never forget the look I got as the cop drove right by me laughing at me! He seen me fighting with the gear shifter! I honestly think he knew I blew the gears because I swear his window was down and I seen him smiling as I was cussing my car out as I fought with it trying to get it in 5th gear! I always got the feeling he knew exactly what had happened to me, and he had mercy on me by not giving me a ticket.- About 2 years after that the car just died on me one day, and I worked on it for many months and never got it to start again. I was too poor to by very many parts and I traced the problem to the computer. I could not afford even a computer out of a junk-yard, so after a couple years of sitting in a parking lot I had to scrap the car after I had moved away and started a new life. The car had 65,000 miles and I was in a pickle and had to get rid of the car fast before I got fined for where I left it parked at, I took $35.00 for the car!! Man that hurt. The wheels alone were worth more $$, but I was a corner and had no other option, not even a friend to help me.

Sorry to get off topic again, but at least we are still discussing cars.

[cfg83]

jamesqf -

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Huh? The CRX is most definitely not a fat-butted car. It has a definite taper from the doors back. And, being a hatchback, it doesn't really even have a trunk - unless you count the under-floor spare tire space as such.

In some ways I think you could argue that the CRX is "all butt".

I guess I'm using trunk and hatchback interchangeably. In both cases, the "interior volume behind the passengers for the purpose of cargo" applies. My POV is practicality, so I am less worried about the semantics. Before the CRX, a 2-seat sports car was not "practical". The CRX broke that rule by essentially cutting the car off at a point where other designers would have extended the car. A normal solution would have eschewed a 2 seat car in favor of a 2+2, creating a bigger car and lower MPG. Here is what the CRX might have looked like if it was more conventional :



Arguably not tooooo different from a Nissan 240SX :



In terms of CRX DNA, I think that the rear vertical window, while not originated by the CRX, became a "CRX trademark" that made its way into other cars like the Prius, Insight, MB C230 hatchback, Mazda MX-3, and Volt. Having this window makes it easier to "cutoff" the car at a certain point while maintaining rear visibility.

I *love* the design of the CRX, but there are people out there that made fun of it over the years. I remember someone talking about how they thought the CRX looked like it came out of the factory with a built-in rear end collision.

CarloSW2

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I told a cop once that my car couldn't even go as fast as he said it was going.

Didn't work.

CPU burnout must have been an Escort thing- none of my or my family's Fords have gone through a single CPU. However, I've had one or two ignition modules go on Tempos; they were a known weak spot.

I think the cops must be sick of drivers using that line. I mean, I seen it used in movies, and the time I got caught doing 87 in a 55 I said the same thing- "Wow officer, I didn't think this car could go that fast!?" (I actually knew the car could go over 100, but I was impressed that his radar gun exactly matched what my speedometer had when my chepos Cobra radar detector beeped one time with one single led lit up!- I looked down and seen the needle a couple notches over 85, then the cop is telling me "87 mph"!) I could not argue speed he claimed, but I did tell him the truth as to why I was going so fast, and he cut me a little slack on the ticket because I was on my way to the hospital (long story) and he followed me there.

I'm a poor mechanic, but I am good at troubleshooting electrical problems. The car had no spark and I started testing and replacing everything from the spark-plugs/wires, distributor-cap, the coil.. I had the schematics and tested and traced the entire path of the spark until everything lead me straight to the dang CPU as being the only thing left. I am 99.9% positive the computer had fryed out.

[cfg83]

Jammer -

Originally Posted by Jammer

Re: 87 Escort GT

...

Sorry to get off topic again, but at least we are still discussing cars.

I always go off topic. It's a free forum.

Also, I think I have always been an economy car junkie. I consider the Escort/Lynx to be the first "successful" American economy car designs (if only imported as is from Ford of Europe?!?!). As comparison, I remember going into the Chevy showroom and being disappointed by the Citation. I still have a Lynx ad lying around somewhere that I've been meaning to post.

CarloSW2