"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Christ

Sure, the expectation is there. Guess what? Noone has to fulfill it. Benefits are not a company obligation, and Unions can ask for it all they want, but ultimately, the submissive is the dominant one. In other words, the company that the Union is hiring for still has control, within the federal labor law. If they don't offer benefits, they're not obligated to have them, and anyone that doesn't like that idea has the right to leave without pay.

I've never accepted company paid benefits where I had an option - I don't agree that my employer should be paying for my benefits, as it becomes a matter of cost, as opposed to a matter of good healthcare. The Employer will seek the lowest priced reasonable healthcare available, whereas the employee would rather have additional care beyond what the company provides.

Or, in my case, I'd rather not have insurance at all. I've never found it necessary, and I manage to pay off all my bills each time I do (rarely) need to see a specialist, doctor, or make a hospital visit. The times that the option is available, I take the money, rather than the insurance. Cash does me better, anyway.

Safe enough to say we are on opposite sides. I sure wish I was lucky enough to never get sick, and I do everything I can to stay healthy. I eat right, I take vitamins, I just had my flu shot, and I am waiting for my SWINE Flue Shot, if I ever get a chance, and I happen to have a Chronic condition. Nobody stays healthy forever at any age. If and when you get sick I hope you have like a few million $ laying around.

We all have the right to die from lack of medical care, few will argue that one.

Cheers.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Safe enough to say we are on opposite sides. I sure wish I was lucky enough to never get sick, and I do everything I can to stay healthy. I eat right, I take vitamins, I just had my flu shot, and I am waiting for my SWINE Flue Shot, if I ever get a chance, and I happen to have a Chronic condition. Nobody stays healthy forever at any age. If and when you get sick I hope you have like a few million $ laying around.

We all have the right to die from lack of medical care, few will argue that one.

Cheers.

I get sick, I just don't go to the dr's for every little thing. When I get a cold, I keep going to work. The last time I had the flu, I kept going to work, except I took more precautions to prevent myself from infecting others, like wearing a surgical mask.

I haven't had a flu shot since I was still in school, I think maybe about 10 years old. I haven't had the flu but once in that time. I don't have any chronic conditions, but I don't trust most medical professionals, either.

I look at it this way: I can treat myself for most things. If I happen to need a prescription, I shake a doctor's hand, let them do their thing, and pay them for it. There has only been one time in my life that I've been sick and the doctor diagnosed it as something other than I thought, and he was actually correct. I had a sinus infection, it was the first one I'd had. I thought I had the flu, but it didn't seem right, which is why I went to the DR's to begin with.

I don't take vitamins, either. Not that I see anything wrong with it, but I feel that I'm getting everything I need from my food. If I'm not, I should be eating better foods, not supplementing with artificial products.

I also won't use synthetic treatments. If it can't be made from 100% natural ingredients, I don't take it. I don't take narcotics of any kind, including pain killers. I guess I'm kind of a hippie?

I've already accepted the fact that even though there is an unmarketable cure/treatment for cancer, I'll never be able to afford it. Even if I could, I'm sure it involves some procedure which is either unethical or unnatural, so I wouldn't want it anyway. I accept the fact that if I get sick enough, I will die.

What I don't accept is that ANY company should be required by law or any stretch of the imagination to provide healthcare benefits to their workers. If the workers want healthcare, they can surely find their own form of it, and if they're the kind of people who feel they need to see doctors, they should have the proper financial availability to do so, whether that be insurance or cash savings.

Me, I'll stick to being me.

I honestly believe that the reason I don't get sick that often, or stay sick for very long when I finally do get sick, is that I stay active, exactly the opposite of what most doctors recommend. Too many people are all about resting at every chance they get... resting from what? Their "hard" lives? Please!

[Jammer]

My friends and I see basic affordable quality health care as a Constitutional right that is self evident. I am deeply involved with lobby groups, believe me the last thing this board needs is for us to tangle over this subject on a public forum. I see no reason to say more on my side except you never know when a brain tumor or other chronic related illnesses wit hit even you. It can happen to anybody. Please lets not go even further down this road of civil war. Nobody will win this argument, but if you must have the last word please make it a brief one and/or take it to PM.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Jammer

My friends and I see basic affordable quality health care as a Constitutional right that is self evident. I am deeply involved with lobby groups, believe me the last thing this board needs is for us to tangle over this subject on a public forum. I see no reason to say more on my side except you never know when a brain tumor or other chronic related illnesses wit hit even you. It can happen to anybody. Please lets not go even further down this road of civil war. Nobody will win this argument, but if you must have the last word please make it a brief one and/or take it to PM.

Aside from being completely off topic for the thread, I don't see a reason it shouldn't be discussed openly. There is no need for it to become some offensive taboo topic that noone else need see, when (as I see it) we're just two men stating and defending our views.

I never said that basic affordable healthcare wasn't a right that is self-evident. I said that no company should be expected to provide healthcare. If you cared about your health care that much, why is it so wrong to think that you'd secure your own health care?

Also, I never said that I would never be affected by a brain tumor or the like. I said that I accept the fact that if I get sick enough, I'm going to die. How many of those tumors and chronic illnesses do you think are curable? If it's not curable, why treat it? I don't see a point to prolonging illnesses. Maybe I'm just the pessimist here, but it's my view, I defend it.

[captainslug]

Can I have my tax dollars back? I never have and never will have any interest in buying a car made by General Motors, nor does my employment or livelihood in any way depend on their continue existence.

Their commercial offerings have been complete garbage since their 1991 model year. My family owned a '90 GMC Suburban which lasted 17 years and survived being struck by two 10-point bucks. But friends who bought the 1991 Suburban or any of their trucks past that point had constant issues with all kinds of nonsensical components. Anything from suspensions giving way, to door handles and tachometers just breaking for no reason.

Originally Posted by Jammer

My friends and I see basic affordable quality health care as a Constitutional right that is self evident.

Well then you better work on getting it included because as the document is now it's definitely not in there.
As currently written, nobody has a Constitutional right to possess something they're not willing to make a financial priority above other discretionary expenses.
I certainly don't have a Constitutional right to food, shelter, or utilities.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by captainslug

Can I have my tax dollars back? I never have and never will have any interest in buying a car made by General Motors, nor does my employment or livelihood in any way depend on their continue existence.

Their commercial offerings have been complete garbage since their 1991 model year. My family owned a '90 GMC Suburban which lasted 17 years and survived being struck by two 10-point bucks. But friends who bought the 1991 Suburban or any of their trucks past that point had constant issues with all kinds of nonsensical components. Anything from suspensions giving way, to door handles and tachometers just breaking for no reason.

I've often heard reports similar to this, but I've always questioned whether this is representative of the company as a whole, or the people doing the job...

I can see if individual components fail, it's the company. But if a bolt loosens, and it's isolated to only a few 10's of times per 10,000 units, doesn't that make it more likely that it was whatever employee was specializing in that particular bolt that day?

I mean, in the long run, it's still the MFR's fault, sure. After all, they obviously didn't look into it far enough to find the actual cause, and fire it. (Him/her)

PS - I used to be Union, would be again if the chance were available, so before anyone gets the idea, I'm not against the Union. I'm against lazy/unqualified/overpaid workers.

[captainslug]

I've just had 17 years of very negative experience with their brands. The overall quality of their delivered products drastically declined after the 1989 and 1990 model years. And the bulk of the problems tend to not be with the powertrain, but with interior, electrical, and suspension components.

[MadisonMPG]

I think you meant that the truck struck the deer, not the other way around.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by MadisonMPG

I think you meant that the truck struck the deer, not the other way around.

Oh Deer! Google Street View Car Runs Into Bambi » Propeller

And

Rally Car Crushes Deer Video

BTW - I've had a deer hit my car. It's only the second time I've come in contact with one while operating, but this particular one was strutting and decided to bull-run my car because, apparently, I was in his way. My apologies, your highness.

O well, at least he tasted good.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Christ

I honestly believe that the reason I don't get sick that often, or stay sick for very long when I finally do get sick, is that I stay active, exactly the opposite of what most doctors recommend.

Yeah, I've always thought that the reason I've generally stayed pretty healthy is that I scare the damn germs to death. "Eeek! We just got in this guy, and now he's going to spend all day skiing around those mountains, in a blizzard? Lemme outa here!"