Are we abusing alcohol?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Waaaah, the food supply!

Seen any empty store shelves lately?

You mis-understand me. GMO corn and soy dominate farming. Consolidation like this makes the whole supply vulnerable to a single pest.

[gone-ot]

...re: Are we abusing alcohol?

...well, I can honestly say that I've never threatened nor struck a defenseless bottle of whiskey in my life!

...'cuz, all of them were 'armed & dangerous' as soon as their seals are broken (wink,wink)!

[nemo]

Abusing? No. Strictly for medicinal purposes.

[Frank Lee]

Ah. Well it was getting pretty consolidated anyway wasn't it?

[shovel]

I don't think a parallel fuel system like proposed here has a mechanism for actually.. improving anything.

What I don't get is why the ethanol haters aren't mad at people with leather anything, wood floors, pieces of paper, shaving cream, diapers, glue, crayons, firecrackers, tires, or any of the other countless non-food things that use corn.

[jakobnev]

You guys, this thread isn't supposed to be about politics!

Originally Posted by Ryland

an engine that is designed for burning alcohol does not work well for burning gasoline and it's the same the other way around

Maybe you could point out some differences?

Originally Posted by shovel

I don't think a parallel fuel system like proposed here has a mechanism for actually.. improving anything.

So you don't think that increased CR gives better efficiency for example?

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by jakobnev

Maybe you could point out some differences?

...well, notable differences between gasoline and ethanol are:

gasoline (C8H16)... 115,400 BTU/gal; A/F = 14.7:1 ...%Oxygen = 0%
ethanol (C2H5(OH))...75,670 BTU/gal; A/F = _9.0:1 ...%Oxygen = ~35%

...and, thus, ethanol has only 70% energy density of gasoline.

...and, E85 content is 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol.

[jakobnev]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...well, notable differences between gasoline and ethanol are:

gasoline (C8H16)... 115,400 BTU/gal; A/F = 14.7:1 ...%Oxygen = 0%
ethanol (C2H5(OH))...75,670 BTU/gal; A/F = 9.0:1 ...%Oxygen = ~35%

...and, thus, ethanol has only 70% energy density of gasoline.

...and, E85 content is 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol.

I was trying to ask him how the engines would be different. (Besides obvious things like AF-ratios.)

[Frank Lee]

Ethanol resistant materials for the fuel system. Carb'd will be jetted bigger and injected may have bigger injectors. Dedicated ethanol engines have higher compression ratios; flex-fuel engines are saddled with the lower gasoline C.R.s which compromise efficiency when they're running ethanol.

[roosterk0031]

Compression ratio is the big thing mechanically wize, turbo's are the make shift compromise, E85 with the higher octane rating won't dentonate nearly as easy allowing for either higher compression ratio or higher boost pressures. Saab has been making the best E85 cars for 5-6 years, the timing, boost pressure and more vary depending on fuel. They make more HP & torque with E85 than regular. One article by Saab I found a few days ago, but can't again said they expect 15% better hwy FE, same city or combined.

In 2007 someone else did some testing of Saab's FFV car, HP numbers agreed with Saab, FE didn't in standardized testing, it was the normal roughly 20% less (almost same as my wife 02 Suburban that does 12.5 on E85 vs 15 E10 on her 4 mile commute, 83% of E10's mpg). Compared to an 2010 or 2011 Malibu's 33 hwy E0 vs 23 E85's is 69% of E0).

Energy density is one thing, higher compression I think increases efficiency so a engine capable of running higher compression can be more efficent. I want to see a E85 engine that can run E0 when neccessary.