Elegant Forced Auto Stop (Insight)

[Natalya]

Looks like the ECM does think the new slow pulse means the car is basically stopped. I got a P0500 today when using the switch, this is an error saying the VSS is messed up. Today I learned that in the Insight you get this when you're getting IMA regen or assist and the VSS reads a very low (or 0) speed. I had pressed the button when I was getting regen from braking which would throw the code.

Basically the ECM thinks, "VSS says the car is too slow for regen or assist, but regen//assist is occuring, therefore the VSS is broken."

This has implications for how to use the switch. I'll get to test some ideas tomorrow.

[brucepick]

I'm with NoD. Natalya, you've gone far beyond what I could do, and what I can fully understand.

Mmmmmm. Maybe you need to build a circuit to gradually decrease the road speed that the computer sees? So... if cruising at 80 kph, when you activate the circuit the computer sees a continually dropping speed till it gets to something below 20 MPH (convert to kph). I say that speed because <20 mph is stated in my owner's manual as a requirement for autostop.

Now once speed (apparent to computer) is below 20 mph and autostop activates - I think it stays in a/s as long as its in neutral or clutch is in use, AND (apparent) speed has to stay low.

Side note - About the ambient temperature requirement. There are several threads on IC about splicing a resistor into the temp sensor circuit, to fool the sensor into thinking the ambient air temperature is warm enough for autostop. I now have mine so it will function normally, OR I can switch it to indicate just under 50ºF, which enables autostop.

Leaving it set normally when possible, is good for me, because the climate control system uses the ambient air temp data as an input.

This post in my own thread on IC also includes links to other good sources there. Auto stop issue - Page 2 - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

Good Luck with your project - it has huge potential!

[Natalya]

For reasons I don't understand, my car WILL Auto Stop even when it's freezing outside. I looked at the wires for the Outside Air Temperature sensor and they don't look like they've been messed with, but last winter in Canada I was regularly able to get AS on days when it was well below freezing.

That said, I was initially building this with a relay to also trick the computer as to what the OAT sensor says, but my problems with the pulses and VSS and ECM in general led me to focus instead on just getting Auto Stop to reliably occur.

A problem I'm encountering is that, because I know it's unlikely to Auto Stop with the switch on, and I know that if I misapply the switch it will then NOT Auto Stop, when I drive I hesitate to even test it because I want to get good tank mpg and I'm wasting gas every time I press the switch and it doesn't AS.

I think spoofing a speed down is a really good idea, I will have to look into the feasibility of designing the circuit in that fashion.

Originally Posted by brucepick

Now once speed (apparent to computer) is below 20 mph and autostop activates - I think it stays in a/s as long as its in neutral or clutch is in use, AND (apparent) speed has to stay low.

In my vehicle, it will NOT stay in AS unless clutch is in AND/OR car is below 4kmh AND/OR brake is still on. So like, I gotta hold my brake switch, have clutch switch on, or have the car close to stopped or the engine will restart immediately. I think this is incorrect behaviour from everything else I've read. But so is having AS when it's well below freezing.

PS:
20mph is about 35kmh which is when I typically see AS occur.

[Ecky]

No, that sounds like correct behavior to me, or at least it's how mine behaves.

Generally, I decelerate in 5th down to 30, then switch to 3rd and decelerate down to 20, pop it into neutral while still holding the brake, and I get auto-stop. I then press my clutch toggle and I can let go of the brake, but I need one or the other on.

With the clutch toggle, the auto stop light is solid. With the brake pressed, it flashes. (I might have that backward but I think it's right)

[Natalya]

Clutch toggle affects the light. Brake can be depressed or released without changing the light.



I finally had success.

Basically, as seen above, I abandoned the 555 timer in favour of a clone of an Arduino Nano. I have a bunch of them lying around. With this I wrote a very simple program for it to generate a square wave at exactly 2 hz, which corresponds with about a 1mph VSS signal. Right now it is hooked to the big pcb, but that's all redundant. I'll wire the arduino straight to the +5v and the ground wires, bypassing that board. Pin A1 on the arduino is the square wave output.

Current functionality:
- Warm engine up
- Achieve speed or location (like top of a hill) where you want to EOC
- Put shifter into neutral
- Press switch to send the square wave to the ECM
- Auto Stop occurs after about 2 seconds.

This is exactly what I was hoping for. Now I can EOC wherever I want without the stupid christmas tree lights.

The next step for me is to fashion a more ergonomic switch. Right now it's just the small sliding SPST switch seen in OP. Any ideas about this? On the shifter would be nice but I want it to be minimalist. Maybe a foot pedal would work. I love my brake switch on the steering wheel, it's unobtrusive and easy to press.

[Natalya]

// Elegant Forced Auto Stop
// Tells a G1 Honda Insight that it is going 1 MPH for AS

int out_a  =  A1;

void setup()
{
  pinMode(out_a, OUTPUT);
}
 
void loop()
{
  digitalWrite(out_a, HIGH);
  delay(250);
  digitalWrite(out_a, LOW);
  delay(250);
}

This really simple code is all you need to tell the Arduino what to do. Verify it works by plugging it up to a 5v power source then put a resistor and LED in series on pin A1 and ground them. When the Arduino is given power it should flash the LED at 2hz. If it does that then you can use it for EFAS.

[Natalya]

Final install. I have to reach a tiny bit to press the switch. I considered foot pedals, but installing one of those would have meant drilling into the floor, and I just didn't want to do that. The black switch on the column is EFAS, the little silver switch on the wheel is my brake (full-regen) switch.

I used the wrong kind of switch for EFAS. It works, but the correct switch would be an SPDT maintain switch. This one has a third neutral position which shouldn't be used. In the photo it is in normal driving mode, when I push it in to the I position at the top it switches the signal to the ECM to come from the Arduino, and then the car goes into Auto Stop if in neutral. Sometimes I have to tap the brake switch to get AS to happen, but that's no biggie. When I want to drive again I press the switch back down to the II position and then I shift into gear. In a pinch you can just shift into gear and the engine will restart, but if you leave the switch depressed in the upper I position you won't get assist or regen.

I'm really happy this project is completed, and I'd love to help anyone who wants to build it for their own car, so just ask if you have questions.

[cowmeat]

I'm really happy this project is completed

One more step you should consider:

To make it really convenient, you could get an S2000 steering wheel and integrate those functions into the cruise control buttons

Now that would be bad!

[Natalya]

I'd need the S2000 wire spool as well. There's a guy near me with a wrecked S2000 parting it out, I should ask him what he wants for the wheel and spool. Do all of them come with CC?

[cowmeat]

I'm not positive, but I think all the ones I looked at when I bought mine had it.