Looking for help building a Gas Vapor system

[oil pan 4]

That sounds about right since the pressure usually peaks at about 15 degrees past top dead center.

[racprops]

Now we are talking the good stuff...

[tf4624]

Originally Posted by racprops

As in the head line I am looking for help building a gasoline vapor system.

I am looking into a system running very high temps.

Rich

High temps are not needed unless you plan to have a mini refinery in which you will need to vaporize all the hydrocarbons at once.. the small ones are easy ..its the heavy ones you need to worry about.

[racprops]

THAT is what I want to do vaporizer 100% of the gasoline on the spot.

Low temp vapor will leave gunk behind, IF you run a whole tank though and only burn off the light stuff you get garbage back into the tank.

For this to work I need high temps to burn all the junk in the gas. And put nothing back into the tank.

Rich

[squirrl22]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Trust me you don't want to use total seal pistol rings on a street driven vehicle.

Really? What was your experience?
I have not used them on my re-builds, but am thinking I would on one of the engines I have awaiting rebuild. (I have a couple 1.6IDI VW diesels that need rebuilding)

I have talked to a couple of guys that sent in a set of OEM (Mahle)top (compression)rings to Total Seal for modification, to become "Gapless" rings. Total Seal recommended that they not modify the other two Mahle rings, so they used the conventional Mahle middle and bottom (oil) rings when rebuilding their VW IDI diesel engines. They found that compression was greatly improved when the engine was cold,(490PSI across all cylinders) which massively helped with starting) and they found that oil contamination, as measured by a lab, was reduced pretty dramatically- oil life was extended by at least 2X.
They have been running their engines for 7+ years now, I haven't heard of any issues. I know they were thinking that the modified top rings would produce less wear on the overbored cylinders.
As you know, that can be a problem - once you overbore, it is pretty common for your cylinder wear to increase, as compared to the original engine cylinders, because the underlying metal of the cylinders is just a bit softer.

[oil pan 4]

Most engine builders will not put together engines for daily driver engines with total seal rings because of complaints about burning oil and high oil consumption.
Also it's been found that most of the rings will line up and stay lined up after as few as 30,000 even on a V8 engine.

In a diesel engine you won't have cylinder vacuum pulling oil through the ring gaps but when the gaps line up you can forget about all that cold compression you had.

Also the total seal ring reviews leave something to be desired. Most people saying that they are not worth the added cost and that next time they will just use traditional file fit rings.

Based on that I'm not putting them on any on road engine I build. I thought about using them on my 6.5L diesel and I'm really glad I didn't.

[100MPGUS]

Originally Posted by ChazInMT

So if a car is getting 33MPG burning 99% of the fuel 99% of the time, and it's only using 30%....Then....It should get 100MPG if it burns 90% cause 90 ÷ 30 = 3 and 3 X 33 is almost 100!!! See, the math does work.

someone call?

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by racprops

Which is one reason ICEs get so damn hot the exhaust temps can run in the 1000s of degrees and the exhaust manifold runs very hot.

I have seen test bench runs of an ICE at full throttle where the manifolds and exhaust pipes can glow bright red with the heat.

You aren't going to see "1000s" of degrees. A competitive drag racer pulling a 540-powered rig through the trap in the mid-8s will see 1300-1500 depending on the tune. That isn't thousands, it's a thousand-plus. That guy is blowing way more power through his engine than you ever will, or pretty much anybody you're likely to meet driving anything on the street, and his EGTs are only in the thousand-plus range. Stop saying thousands.

The exhaust is hot because the exhaust gases being ejected from the cylinder are hot. The catalytic converter is hot because it's burning off carbon monoxide, which is a fuel gas and a result of rapid fuel burning (like in an engine cylinder). It also burns off unburned fuel if some manages to get out of the cylinder; that isn't supposed to happen so if your cat melts, spend some time making nice with your fuel and air management systems because the cat doesn't die without a reason.

For the record, steel glowing bright cherry red is at about 1500 degrees. Spend a little time pounding away at hot steel on an anvil and you'll become intimately familiar with that. HOWEVER, if you are observing this color through a video camera, all bets are off. Video camera's imaging sensors are very sensitive to IR and the IR filters in the lenses aren't perfect, so it's very easy to "see" a glowing-hot surface that isn't actually glowing to the naked eye.

I'm regretting, on a very small scale since it's Friday evening and I have nothing else to do, weighing in on this topic as I fear it is Corral bound, but what the hell.

I see you vigorously shouting back and forth at the people here, why not just build your 100% vapor engine and tell us your results?

[RustyLugNut]

You have received good information and advice which is what you asked for. However, you blatantly pick and choose what you want to believe.

I have worked on engines at the university level. Engines with borosilicate windows to film the combustion process show that 99 % of the fuel is burned within the power stroke of the engine. Only in rich running full power pulls will you see flames coming out of your exhaust. At stoichiometric mixes - nothing. Other than fuel slip in the rings and up against the quench areas ( and these are reduced in modern engines with adequate chamber turbulance) a balanced mix will burn within the cylinder to the tune of 98-99%. If you think your experience and education give you more insight into the subject, then I can't help you.

And elhig is right, this is a good topic that might get dumped into the Corral simply because you refuse to discuss the concerns others bring up. The science of combustion is complex but vapor phase combustion is not a magic bullet everyone in the 200 mpg community thinks it is. There is some efficiency to be had in the percentile range depending on caveats. Insistence on otherwise simply becomes drudgery.

[oil pan 4]

It could be tested with propane. A little math to convert propane mpg into gallons of gasoline equivalent.
Done.