Snake oil or real deal? Phoenix Fuel Converter

[jdub]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

WHOA what a rip off... Especially since they arent bold enough to also claim an increase of torque, horsepower, and maroon paint while decreasing celebrity endorsements for less than half the price like cal-cat. CalCat Gasoline Kit |Cal-Cat Gasoline System | gas conditioning system

It turns out the Cal-Cat system is the first iteration by the same "inventor" of the Phoenix Fuel Converter... Further proof that this is snake oil by the fact that the description of how this works is different between the Cal-Cat version and the Phoenix Fuel Converter version. Looks like are trying to modify the made up story to try and lure in more suckers.

[maxc]

Phoenix Fuel Converter Install - YouTube

[maxc]

My guess is it has dissimilar metals that work better when heated. It puts positive ion's into the fuel.

[RedDevil]

If it would put positive ions into the fuel then where do the negative ions go?
A heat differential over dissimilar metals can create a tiny electric voltage difference (millivolts), never enough to do something like ionizing fuel.

[maxc]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

If it would put positive ions into the fuel then where do the negative ions go?
A heat differential over dissimilar metals can create a tiny electric voltage difference (millivolts), never enough to do something like ionizing fuel.

Back in the 1990's you could buy a fuel ionizer from summit racing parts. It used 70 watts of power. It was tested on a 700 horsepower BBC and it gained 20hp.

About 3 years in a row a guy came in the shop I worked at too get his racing tires mounted on a 440 powered Charger. It ran high 11's in the 1/4 mile. He put the ionizer on it and he's times consistatly droped .15 sec. and he said 20 more miles too the tank.

[undeRGRound]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

If it would put positive ions into the fuel then where do the negative ions go?

The unit is grounded, that could answer your question...




As for a fuel heater, I have seen many MPG enthusiasts place a brass fuel fitting on the exhaust manifold to heat the fuel. Might create a vapor bubble on a hot shutdown, but the EFI pump could easily overcome this in a matter of seconds. Just not sure of the safety of this with standard metal lines.

I have a theory that copper pellets (wire cuttings) could act as a catalyst if the fuel was hot enough. All the crap additives in gasoline would eventually coat the pellets, and reduce the effect.

[MetroMPG]

I find it funny that in a thread about something pretty snake oil-ish, Google saw it fit to show me an ad for "Powerful Healing Water" ...




Moved to the Corral.

[ChazInMT]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

BTW, Did you know that sketches with arrows showing airflow have made wind tunnel testing obsolete?

I've known that for a few years now Frank. I sense you have a problem with that.



Here's my vote On the Fenix Phuel Kornverter FWIW

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by undeRGRound

The unit is grounded, that could answer your question...

No, it does not.
If even a tiny fraction of the molecules were ionized positively without being accompanied by negatively charged ions, then the static charge would be immense. The ions would adhere immediately to anything conductive to de-ionize themselves.
You don't want that to be the piston or the combustion chamber. Condensation should be avoided, not enhanced.

But there is no chance that the ions would come that far.
Any attempt to ionize fuel will just heat it imho.
Formula one racing teams have gigantic budgets to spend and analyzed the combustion process to the bone. None use ionizers.

Originally Posted by undeRGRound

As for a fuel heater, I have seen many MPG enthusiasts place a brass fuel fitting on the exhaust manifold to heat the fuel. Might create a vapor bubble on a hot shutdown, but the EFI pump could easily overcome this in a matter of seconds. Just not sure of the safety of this with standard metal lines.

I have a theory that copper pellets (wire cuttings) could act as a catalyst if the fuel was hot enough. All the crap additives in gasoline would eventually coat the pellets, and reduce the effect.

This device is safe enough as a fuel heater, if we disregard that anything that adds to the complexity of the fuel system can cause it to fail.

Again, there is nothing to catalyse.
Copper pellets would not do anything, and that is a good thing.
The fuel as it is gets burned almost completely in the combustion chamber of a properly running engine.
Suppose a catalyst would induce any kind of reaction before the combustoin takes place.
It is bound to be exothermic, or it would not occur at all. But then it would lower the caloric value of the fuel.

But I doubt I could win this battle of words with scientific arguments, when there is such strong evidence available like guys who walk into shops and say things.

[ChazInMT]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

The fuel as it is gets burned almost completely in the combustion chamber of a properly running engine.

Geez O Pete's, this always gets me here. How is it some people feel that, "Yeah, Sure, It all burns up......but we can super improve the "Way" it burns man."

So like the already complete combustion process can be "Improved" to get more energy out.

To me, there is only so much energy stored in the fuel in the form of chemical potential energy, once you've burned 99.999% of it, there is no more.

Now don't get me wrong, there are still a Gazillion ways to improve getting more of the energy we release during combustion converted into mechanical energy to push our cars down the road, I'd be an idiot of galactic proportions to suggest that there isn't a ton of room for improvement here. I'm only speaking of the efficiency of combusting all the fuel itself in the cylinder.

Seems to me that a lot of the tweeks and lessons learned over 136 years of gasoline engine development have had the ultimate end being complete combustion of the fuel in the cylinder. But now there are scammers trying to gain an edge by saying that the complete combustion itself is not good enough, and they know how to make it better.


Yeah.
Sure.
OK.