Why doesn't the U.S. get good FE cars?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by trikkonceptz

Like all other businesses, there is no money in small cars. I work for a Ford Dealership and I see the margins everyday. There is less than $1000 profit in a focus that is sold at full sticker. With numbers like that or until that changes there will be no motivation to sell compacts.

No money in small cars? Haven't we been here before? Or are you in some parallel universe, where Ford & GM are posting decent profits, while Honda & Toyota are flirting with bankruptcy?

Maybe you need to revisit your premise. Could it be that in fact there's not a lot of money in the low end of the automotive price scale? So that if Ford goes on thinking small car = cheap car, they won't find the profit that is to be made in small cars, and the Japanese & Koreans will keep taking it.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

The Hondas and Toyotas rusted out even faster than Pintos and Gremlins.

Have to disagree with that. Where I grew up (in the Northeast), American cars would rust pretty darned fast. I remember helping a friend fix the rusted-out floor pan of an early Mustang, which couldn't have been more than 4 years old.

US safety regulations eventually force cars to be heavy and environmental regs preclude the very efficient diesel engine.

Those regulations aren't carved in stone. Maybe if enough people stopped whining about the high cost of gas (as if $4/gal was high), and started insisting on better fuel economy, we could get some of the stupidity changed. Just for instance, why should a car company have to go through two different sets of testing, European and US, on a car? Adopt common standards, and Ford & GM could have their economical European models on a boat the next day - then start retooling their US factories.

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Adopt common standards, and Ford & GM could have their economical European models on a boat the next day - then start retooling their US factories.

Exactly what I have been thinking, it is a world problem. Why not make world standards? Everyone's safety should be held at the same level of value, so why not the tests. But alot of this would rely on people's driving, I know more wreckless and careless drivers than safe and cautious drivers. Everyone is in such a big hurry, FOR WHAT? I can time myself across town @ 35 or 45 and would only save a couple minutes. If you are that busy that a couple minutes will destroy your day, then you have issues you need to fix.

[SuperTrooper]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Those regulations aren't carved in stone. Maybe if enough people stopped whining about the high cost of gas (as if $4/gal was high), and started insisting on better fuel economy, we could get some of the stupidity changed. Just for instance, why should a car company have to go through two different sets of testing, European and US, on a car? Adopt common standards, and Ford & GM could have their economical European models on a boat the next day - then start retooling their US factories.

People are insisting on better fuel economy by their change in buying habits. The problem is the vehicles available for purchase were designed and planned 2 or more years ago. Here comes the new Camaro!

You are obviously expecting Washington to roll over and accept the European standards. I can hear it now: "We can't let some trans-continental govt in Europe tell us what to do!" Pipe dream. It took 8 years of lobbying to get the rule changed allowing non-sealed beam headlights! I can't see 2 very entrenched cabinet departments (DOT and EPA) just saying okay, whatever. There would have to be international meetings with give and take on both sides. It would take years.

For real improvements from Detroit we'll have to look to 2011 and beyond. For now they'll just have to tread water. Then fuel will get less expensive again and the pendulum will slowly swing back. We've seen it before.

In another thread I predicted that 10-15 years from now Americans will be driving 400 HP electric Hummers, because there is something in the American psyche that makes us want that kind of thing.

[mrmad]

I think the high gas prices will create a commuter car market. If gas stays above $4, or goes even higher, I think you will start to see the modern equivalent of the VX or XFi. On my commute in So Cal, I still see plenty of people commuting in their SUVs, pickups and large cars. If gas stays this expensive or gets worse, which it probably will, people who commute in these monsters will realize that the payment on a cheaper car that gets over 40mpg will be less then their gas bill on the monster. Let alone what 18-20 tires cost to replace.

It would be hard to justify a $25,000 hybrid just to save gas, but a cheap, $10,000-$12,000 commuter car when your fuel bill is $500 a month isn't too hard to imagine.

[Big Dave]

A $12,000 car will drive Detroit into liquidation.

[mrmad]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

A $12,000 car will drive Detroit into liquidation.

They are just about there already. Just saw a Cal Worthington commercial advertizing a new 08 F-150 for $11,900.

[mrmad]

Originally Posted by BlackDeuceCoupe

Dude!

Is that guy still around - the World's Largest Used Car Salesman?

If so, that's amazing! He gotta be there in name only... not in the flesh!

EDIT

n/m

Just answered my own question...

SOURCE

Yep, he looked beyond death, but was there in front of new Fords, so unless they got a wax figure that talks, it was him.

[Bror Jace]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers Japanese sub-compacts from the 70s and 80s as cars that were very good for that time. Not perfect ... but better than the downsized clunkers the Big 3 were (grudgingly) producing. They weren't as reliable as some of the full-sized cars and trucks ... but here we go again with the idea that all the Big 3 could make well as a large, V-8 (or straight 6) powered, rear-wheel drive vehicle. Not exactly ideal in an era with emissions controls and $4 per gallon gas.

And, as instarx pointed out, the Japanese marques' reputation grew (positively) from these early models. Most people must have thought them worthwhile.

That gave Honda and opening 20 years ago ... and they never looked back. My 1995 Civic DX Coupe has 200,000+ (relatively trouble-free) miles on it and its 3rd owner just paid $800 for it. My 1990 Integra went nearly 200K before I lost track of who owned it. Both cars were driven hard, but maintained well and had long, long lives with no major problems or component replacements to speak of.

Yes, as jamesqf has chronicled, a small car may not necessarily be a cheap car. And that's a problem with the domestic manufacturers. They don't understand the idea that you can (and should) pour quality into a compact car ... and people will pay thousands more for it as a result.

What would you say was the best domestically produced economy/compact car ... the Ford Focus? I have known Neon owners and they wouldn't nominate their cars. I can't think of any others ...

[Bror Jace]

Sorry BDC. I had the car until 90,000 miles. Sold it to my best friend's wife ... who put 100,000 miles on it ... then she sold it almost immediately after putting a sign on it. At that point I don't know who owned (owns?) it.

Point is, it lasted a long, long time with little if any trouble.