Why doesn't the U.S. get good FE cars?

[Peakster]

$4+ gallon gas is fairly expensive, however apparently not too expensive. People around here are still wanting a pretty-penny for their used SUVs, so they're not desperate to sell... at least not yet. However, once peoples' lines of credit are maxed, watch out!

One Ford dealership in my city is sitting on 63 Ford Escapes, but there's only 7 fusions are on the lot. That tells me something.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper

In another thread I predicted that 10-15 years from now Americans will be driving 400 HP electric Hummers, because there is something in the American psyche that makes us want that kind of thing.

Just who are you calling "us"? I figure that (since some of my ancestors were shooting arrows at the others when they drove their Conestogas across the plains) I'm about as American as anyone, and I don't like big cars. I don't think I'm alone in that, either. Just look at the massive marketing campaign the Detroit 3 had to use to sell the idea of the SUV to more than a small fraction of the public - in spite of which, a large fraction went right on buying smaller cars. As I've pointed out over and over, just look at which car companies are turning a profit, and which drowning in red ink.

Indeed, it seems to me that it's mainly the American car companies that want to sell big cars. Look at the '50s and early '60s as a parallel case. Early '50s Fords & Chevys were moderate sized (for the day), basic transportation cars. Ford & Chevy even tried producing real sports cars, the Thunderbird & Corvette. Then with the '57 Chevy, they started growing tailfins, in '58 they started bloating, and kept on the trend through the early '60s. So what happened? The VW bug opened the door for the small, economical, fun cars that a lot of Americans preferred to "Detroit iron".

[dcb]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Just who are you calling "us"?

I know where you are coming from. A lot of generalizations (accurate and otherwise) about what is, what was, and what will be get passed around. Not everyone in America thinks a 400hp electric behemoth is an attractive proposition, rest assured

[wonderworm]

Originally Posted by basjoos

Unfortunately EPA and CARB exhaust emissions are measured in parts per million at the exhaust port, not in milligrams emitted per vehicle mile traveled. That's why Aptera wasn't able to get a small diesel motor certified in CA, since they couldn't find one that had a low enough ppm at the exhaust. But Ford had no problems certifying its powerstroke diesel pickup trucks in CA. Guess which vehicle would be spitting out more pollutants per mile traveled down the road. Its a case of penny wise and pound foolish.

I think I am going to throw up. Can we please vote these fools responsible out of office already. Oh how I hate retarded logic. I hope the GOP get's demolished this November and I hope the Democrats pay attention and fix this mess that is our pathetic CAFE standards, EPA and CARB measurement rules, and lack of manufacturing incentives for 100mpg and higher cars.

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by BlackDeuceCoupe

!?

One of the reasons the earth is heating up is because the air is TOO clean, e.g. not providing us with protection from the sun's rays. Hell, skin cancer is rampant these days because of clean air!

Where did you here this BS. The pollutants in the air are acting like a blanket and holding in the heat. Sun rays in and through and will not reflect out because of the pollutants. Read up on it greenhouse gas/effect.

[larryrose11]

bbjsw10,
BlackDeuceCoupe,
you BOTH are right.
Ever here of Global Cooling? It is an effect first noticed by farmers when the pan evaporation rate slowly started decreasing around the world. There are hundreds of years of data on the pan evap rate. Global cooling is the effect that particulate matter in the air from the last 200 yrs of burning coal and other nasties has decreased the amount of sunlight reaching the surface, hence decreasing the pan evap rate. This effect was balancing out the increase in GHG until we started decreasing particulate matter emitted from the things we burn, say around the 60's or so. Since then, the worlds major power plants have become cleaner, allowing the human induced global warming effect to be seperated for the natural effects.

Larryrose11

[instarx]

Originally Posted by BlackDeuceCoupe

The problem with YOUR logic is...

Gasoline powered vehicles emit pollution into the atmosphere - the stuff we breath.

Diesel particulates fall harmlessly to the ground - so you're safe unless you're an asphalt licker or draft diesel trucks!

Democrats fix this mess? What mess?!?!?

One of the reasons the earth is heating up is because the air is TOO clean, e.g. not providing us with protection from the sun's rays. Hell, skin cancer is rampant these days because of clean air!

Bring back the smog! And, you think Dems are going to do this? Hello?!?!?

Whoa there duece. First, diesel particulates can be very very small, as small a 0.01 micrometer or less. Particles of this size act almost as molecules, floating in the air for days. Ever see dust motes in a beam of sunlight? - well that's how most diesel particulates act. You breath them in with every breath. I won't get into respirable particulate size, but there is lots of science to show that diesel particulates fall in the most hazardous size range for humans.

I think you re confusing clean air with ozone-free air. Yes, ozone is a pollutant when it's near the ground, but the lack of ozone in the upper atmosphere (where it blocks UV rays) is a completely different issue. Too much ozone down here and too little ozone in the upper atmosphere are both bad. In no way can that be called "too little pollution".

[larryrose11]

BlackDeuceCoupe,
exactly what I said about fine particulates (aerosols) and how there were masking the effect of anthropomorphic GHG. The pan evap rate should also show an increaser over the same period as the Aerosol Optical Depth also decreases, and perhaps by a similar %

Larryrose11

[larryrose11]

Beijing is throwing their weight behind increasing Coal Aerosols. China to the rescue (NOT)!!

[bbjsw10]

BlackDueceCoupe, I am not gettin in a pissing match with you. It just ticked me off when you act like the problems are from not having enough pollution in air. That is the part that gets me. Hopefully you don't believe everything you read. I read a study where air pollution from a car is so clean you can sit in garage with it running and not die.