"100% of people who do not save money do not have any!"--Dave Ramsey

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Of course, I meant in terms of a paying job though. Set minimum wage at $20/hr, and a lot of jobs go away. Society deems jobs below that to not be valuable human pursuits.

My point is, technology keeps raising the skill bar for employment, but humans are still running the same wetware since human biology doesn't change as rapidly.

We are getting there faster than you think. Minimum wage just makes our ROI better for automation (we have a lot of minimum iq jobs that haven't been replaced by machines yet because labor was acceptable). Our $/hr required to get employees now that the national chains have decided to raise their min wage nationally and just subsidize the local wages has gone up about 75% in the last 18 months. This isn't a big deal in California where that still doesn't even make a dent in a livable wage, but here it does. Thats a lot of money to compete with. lol

[redpoint5]

Livable wage is a throwaway line that doesn't mean anything for 2 reasons:

1. I can live on minimum wage and steadily accumulate wealth.
2. Entry level jobs aren't meant to be a career that sustains a family, but a foothold into the labor market.

Was just talking to a high school kid yesterday and he's a burger flipper at McDonalds. Couldn't have more respect for him. They're paying him a fortune and giving him as many hours as he will take.

If someone says I can't accept a wage I agree to, or couldn't live on it, I tell them to get outta here with their ignorant tyranny.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Livable wage is a throwaway line that doesn't mean anything for 2 reasons:

1. I can live on minimum wage and steadily accumulate wealth.
2. Entry level jobs aren't meant to be a career that sustains a family, but a foothold into the labor market.

Was just talking to a high school kid yesterday and he's a burger flipper at McDonalds. Couldn't have more respect for him. They're paying him a fortune and giving him as many hours as he will take.

If someone says I can't accept a wage I agree to, or couldn't live on it, I tell them to get outta here with their ignorant tyranny.

I agree that being able to adapt to circumstances is a good quality. But in the end, 2 + 2 = 4.

Looking at several papers and online real estate sites, I could only find three rentals in a 60-mile radius, all single rooms in shared homes. One was $600, the other $700 and the other $975. There were a couple mobile homes for sale in the $30k and up range, with lot rent, on property the owner is trying to drive out all the tenants. Mind you these mobile homes can't be relocated. The next house on the market is a two-bedroom half of a duplex going for $300k, and I bet it has some serious problems. The next house after that is $425 and goes up from there.

On the other hand, the employment sections of the papers are plumb full. Most of the jobs are from $17 to $25 an hour, depending on experience. One roofing job is offering $20 to $35 an hour, depending on experience. Mind you a lot of these jobs slump down in hours during off seasons, like in the winter for construction, or in the fall and spring for food, entertainment and transportation.

But say you (generic "you" not "you" personally) have experience as a roofer and somehow get work all year long, 40 hours a week all 52 weeks without a single break and have zero debt. Then according to NerdWallet, you could afford the $450,000 house after nearly $102,000 in down payment and closing costs and you'd be paying 1/3 of your pretax income on housing.

If you have experience in something else and make the maximum of $25 and hour, were sure you'd work all 52 weeks a year full time and had zero debt, then you could afford the $300,000 house.

But if you make $20 or less or have enough debt or bad credit with the $25 to $35 wages, then you can only afford an old trailer in a mobile home park that doesn't want you there, or room with someone in a shared house.

Lots of people here live in their car. There is no good way to commute from a cheaper town or suburb.

I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I've been here for 16 years and also make $25 an hour. Oh well, that's what I get for not going to college, I guess.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I've been here for 16 years and also make $25 an hour. Oh well, that's what I get for not going to college, I guess.

You didn't move to someplace with more reasonable housing costs. People used to move to opportunity - not so much anymore. Go West young man (or in this case too many people went West to your town so it may be time to go back East)

Going to college doesn't guarantee a good job. My wife went to college, graduated with a 4 year bachelor of science degree, and found her degree got her an extra $1 per hour at the same job she had before college. She worked for 2 years and then decided to go back to school again. This time she looked at what jobs were growing and paid well and then picked what looked to be the best fit for her. Not a dream job - but a well paying job.

[ME_Andy]

Yep, it's time to move or start living in an RV, I guess. I know these things are complicated, especially with a family.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by JSH

You didn't move to someplace with more reasonable housing costs. People used to move to opportunity - not so much anymore. Go West young man (or in this case too many people went West to your town so it may be time to go back East)

Going to college doesn't guarantee a good job. Not a dream job - but a well paying job.

Yup going to college does not guarantee getting a dream job. Just a nice office job usually that is easier on you but not double the pay. Instead of moving to the city that I live in now that i couldn't afford to live in at the time I made the hard decision to go to the affordable town. Bought a house while in college working full time, had roommates, graduated in 6 years, and then moved here. It took a long time but was worth it in the end. Financially it made me a lot better off than moving straight to the preferred town. There is still plenty of cities that are affordable everybody just wants to fight over a house in a small number of cities. Personally I think if you can't afford to buy a house in the city you want to move to you shouldn't move there. But yes delayed gratification is a *****, although renting in a city where housing is going up faster every year than money you save up for it sounds worse.

I qualified for that 128k house on $15/hr. Sold my cool car I had saved up for in high school and used that to cover the down payment and closing cost. At the time 5% down and a 30 year loan at 3.125% was about $800/mo.

[ME_Andy]

I know a freaking lawyer who can barely afford a house in Austin now. Don't move to Austin

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Most of the jobs are from $17 to $25 an hour, depending on experience. One roofing job is offering $20 to $35 an hour, depending on experience. Mind you a lot of these jobs slump down in hours during off seasons, like in the winter for construction, or in the fall and spring for food, entertainment and transportation.

But say you (generic "you" not "you" personally) have experience as a roofer and somehow get work all year long, 40 hours a week all 52 weeks without a single break and have zero debt. Then according to NerdWallet, you could afford the $450,000 house after nearly $102,000 in down payment and closing costs and you'd be paying 1/3 of your pretax income on housing.

If you have experience in something else and make the maximum of $25 and hour, were sure you'd work all 52 weeks a year full time and had zero debt, then you could afford the $300,000 house.

But if you make $20 or less or have enough debt or bad credit with the $25 to $35 wages, then you can only afford an old trailer in a mobile home park that doesn't want you there, or room with someone in a shared house.

Lots of people here live in their car. There is no good way to commute from a cheaper town or suburb.

I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I've been here for 16 years and also make $25 an hour. Oh well, that's what I get for not going to college, I guess.

Lots of factors. Corrupt politics usually is to blame for housing shortages with restrictive zoning laws, or disincentives to build such as "rent control".

Those seasonal workers that get much more work during some periods will be making crazy overtime when it's busy. Most will spend every penny they make immediately, and then suffer during the lean times. Unfortunately that's the consequence of not being good at controlling consumer behavior. I lucked out in that my spending habits would not change regardless of getting paid weekly, or once a year in a lump sum. In fact, I only ever look at my income, expenses, and balance once a year when I do taxes. No budget required when you live well below your means.

I lived in my car for 2 years when I was young, which gave me a big headstart on accumulating a downpayment on my first house, which I purchased and then rented out 3 of the rooms. I did this on a $17/hr wage. At the very end of my last job, I was making $25/hr. I had saved so well that I paid cash when I got married, paid off my wife's debt (student loans and CC), put her through a medical program paying in cash, and bought another house.

Those that spent every penny they had when they were young are at a disadvantage when they finally begin to raise a family. Those that amassed a large amount of college debt and earned a worthless degree area also at a huge disadvantage.

$25/hr is an excellent wage, especially for someone without a degree. It's not an extravagant amount to raise a family on a single wage, but doable.

As an aside, my dad as the only income in the family never made more than $35k in a year working at Safeway. That was about 15 years ago. I had an excellent childhood despite a relatively lean upbringing. He never got food stamps despite qualifying for them. Back in the day, there was a certain amount of pride in being self-sufficient to the degree possible. What little of that value that existed then has long since eroded away. We see corporate fat cats getting bailed out and then give up trying to live honorably.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by ME_Andy

I know a freaking lawyer who can barely afford a house in Austin now. Don't move to Austin

I pointed at this house one day when i was visiting my friend after he told me he was renting a 1 bed studio apt off oltorf for 1800/mo. I said wow you should buy one of those cheapo little houses over there. WRONG. $1.4mil
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...29460317_zpid/
After he showed me that I said, "Damn how can they convince anybody to move here?"
He knew i wasn't being insulting but yeah the housing market there is a no for my poor hillbilly butt.

[redpoint5]

Yeesh, I thought Texas was where you could get a McMansion for relatively cheap? They've got nothing but endless land.