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Old 01-08-2023, 10:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EcoCivic View Post
Nice find! These 7th gen Civics can get surprisingly good MPG. I have an 05 sedan with the 1.7 VTEC and base D17A1 5 speed and I regularly get 45-47 MPG on my daily commute with a best tank of 49.2 MPG. That's with some mods (mostly performance mods actually), but nothing extreme.

I also have a K24A2 swapped sleeper 04 sedan, but at the moment it's currently getting only about 40-42 MPG because it's not nearly finished yet.

If I may make a few suggestions for simple and cheap ways to improve your MPG, you may want to get a block heater, block the upper grill for the winter, adjust the valve lash, and change the spark plugs and upstream o2 sensor if they are original. You'll likely see some decent gains with that stuff.

You can also convert the power steering to the electric system from the Civic Hybrid or EP3 Si or just delete the power steering to free up a few HP, get a little more MPG, and free up a lot of space under the hood. Converting to EPS was fairly easy and cheap for me, but I don't find these cars that hard to steer without power steering either.
Thanks for the tips EcoCivic,
Is your daily commute mainly highway? 45-47mpg seems unachievable for me. Right now, my average fuel economy sits around 26mpg, but that's almost all short 5-10 minute city drives with a cold engine, which isn't exactly ideal parameters for good gas mileage. A block heater would definitely make sense for me, but I don't want to have to fight for driveway space every time I get home, so it's not on my list for now.

That's really cool that you converted your power steering to an electric system, my pump has actually been whining the last few weeks. I was going to flush the system, but if that doesn't fix it I may just do a delete and eventually an electric power steering swap. Do you have a build thread you can link me?

I'm not sure if the spark plugs are old or not, I haven't taken a look actually, I'll keep that in mind once the weather warms up. If you have any other tips or advice let me know! I'm really hoping to get it up to 30mpg, hopefully once I put these new wheels and tires on it'll give me a push in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Funny, I need to modify--fix--my 2002 Civic coupe.

It has a quarter million miles and a blown head gasket.

I need to finally get my Accord back on the road, figure out my ATF leak, and then figure out the 2002 Civic.

However, life, uh, finds a way.

What year was your Accord?
Well, it sounds like yours needs some work, but I'm glad to hear it lasted so long before the head gasket blew. I've heard the main issues on these cars are the head gaskets and automatic transmissions, luckily I don't need to worry about the transmission!

My Accord was a 2008 V6 Coupe with a 6 speed manual, it was fully loaded (EX-L w/ Navigation), and was a great car. If it weren't for the paint's dramatic wear over the last year I would have kept it for a long time.

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Old 01-08-2023, 11:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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As you say, driving conditions are key.

I'm sure it's already on your radar, but for short trips, improving warmup is going to be the lowest hanging fruit. Block heater, grille block, engine blanket, etc. , along with reductions in parasitic loses, such as thinner fluids, higher tire pressure, etc.

Power steering is also a pretty big parasitic loss, but I'd be reluctant to lose it without electric replacement.

Ultimately though, you're not going to be able to compare with others who have more friendly driving cycles.
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Old 01-08-2023, 11:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian View Post
Thanks for the tips EcoCivic,
Is your daily commute mainly highway? 45-47mpg seems unachievable for me. Right now, my average fuel economy sits around 26mpg, but that's almost all short 5-10 minute city drives with a cold engine, which isn't exactly ideal parameters for good gas mileage. A block heater would definitely make sense for me, but I don't want to have to fight for driveway space every time I get home, so it's not on my list for now.

That's really cool that you converted your power steering to an electric system, my pump has actually been whining the last few weeks. I was going to flush the system, but if that doesn't fix it I may just do a delete and eventually an electric power steering swap. Do you have a build thread you can link me?

I'm not sure if the spark plugs are old or not, I haven't taken a look actually, I'll keep that in mind once the weather warms up. If you have any other tips or advice let me know! I'm really hoping to get it up to 30mpg, hopefully once I put these new wheels and tires on it'll give me a push in the right direction.
My daily commute is currently 25 miles each way on country highways with 40-55 MPH speed limits and only a couple stops each way, so pretty good conditions for MPG. It's not bad on the interstate though, I just took my 05 on a ~450 mile round trip from Memphis to Nashville to pick up a 6 speed transmission for my 04 and I averaged 45.4 MPG (indicated and verified) on the way there at about 60-65 MPH and on the way back I averaged 47.9 MPG (indicated but not verified) averaging about 55 MPH. That's with no drafting or other extreme techniques, just being smooth on the throttle, coasting down the slight hills as much as possible, and driving in a way that brake usage isn't required. I don't get very good MPG on short trips either, 26 MPG seems about right. But other than preheating the engine, there's not much you can do about that other than not idling to warm up and not using the heater until the engine is warm since heater usage delays the warmup. Could you possibly use a long extension cord to power a block heater?

Deleting the power steering isn't a bad option. At least in my opinion, these cars aren't that hard to steer without power steering as long as the strut mounts, tie rod ends, etc aren't sticking like mine were and I'm not a big guy. If my only options were the stock system or manual steering, I'd pick manual steering every day. I don't have a complete build thread, but have a couple threads on converting to EPS if that's something you are considering. And of course if you have any questions you are always welcome to ask.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...n-37317-2.html

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...onversion.html

Last edited by EcoCivic; 01-08-2023 at 11:40 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-10-2023, 04:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoCivic View Post
My daily commute is currently 25 miles each way on country highways with 40-55 MPH speed limits and only a couple stops each way, so pretty good conditions for MPG. It's not bad on the interstate though, I just took my 05 on a ~450 mile round trip from Memphis to Nashville to pick up a 6 speed transmission for my 04 and I averaged 45.4 MPG (indicated and verified) on the way there at about 60-65 MPH and on the way back I averaged 47.9 MPG (indicated but not verified) averaging about 55 MPH. That's with no drafting or other extreme techniques, just being smooth on the throttle, coasting down the slight hills as much as possible, and driving in a way that brake usage isn't required. I don't get very good MPG on short trips either, 26 MPG seems about right. But other than preheating the engine, there's not much you can do about that other than not idling to warm up and not using the heater until the engine is warm since heater usage delays the warmup. Could you possibly use a long extension cord to power a block heater?

Deleting the power steering isn't a bad option. At least in my opinion, these cars aren't that hard to steer without power steering as long as the strut mounts, tie rod ends, etc aren't sticking like mine were and I'm not a big guy. If my only options were the stock system or manual steering, I'd pick manual steering every day. I don't have a complete build thread, but have a couple threads on converting to EPS if that's something you are considering. And of course if you have any questions you are always welcome to ask.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...n-37317-2.html

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...onversion.html
Thanks for the info, Iíve been looking into the electric power steering conversion, and it seems like a lot of work, and pretty minimal ROI for me. With my short stop & start drives I should be less worried about parasitic losses, and more worried about reducing vehicle weight and achieving ideal operating temperatures faster.

I think you and Ecky both might be right, maybe next winter Iíll have to install a block heater.
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Old 01-10-2023, 05:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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NoD had a good writeup on neutralizing power steering. I removed my power steering because I needed to replace my alternator and it was in the way. I was looking into doing it properly when my dad passed away and I never looked into it again.
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Old 01-11-2023, 03:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian View Post
Thanks for the info, I’ve been looking into the electric power steering conversion, and it seems like a lot of work, and pretty minimal ROI for me. With my short stop & start drives I should be less worried about parasitic losses, and more worried about reducing vehicle weight and achieving ideal operating temperatures faster.

I think you and Ecky both might be right, maybe next winter I’ll have to install a block heater.
Good point. If you want to see what gains you can get, it's easy enough to take the power steering pump belt off and see how much efficiency you gain. For what it's worth, Honda claimed a 2% fuel efficiency improvement on the 7th gen Civic Si (EP3) just from the EPS system.

There isn't that much room for simple and cost effective weight reduction on these cars IMO, stuff like the interior pieces are pretty light. Taking out the spare tire and jack will save you about 25-30 pounds. Removing the AC saves about 35-40 pounds, I'd be happy to weigh the system for an exact weight. Keeping only as much fuel as you need will save quite a bit too, liquids are heavy. Light weight alloy wheels can easily save 5-10+ pounds of rotational mass each, the stock 15 inch steel wheels weigh about 23 pounds each.

On the topic of warmup, getting the oil warmed up quickly will likely show decent gains for short trips too. Honda used an oil cooler/warmer oil filter housing on just about all their ultra high efficiency engines for a reason. These are easy to retrofit onto your engine if you want it. I went way overkill and got a 30 plate oil to coolant heat exchanger to heat/cool my oil and it works amazingly well, the oil temp comes up much faster and sits within a few degrees of the coolant temp regardless of load or weather. With effective oil temp control, much thinner oils can safely be used too since it won't get too hot and thin out. Then you can get the best of both worlds with a lower average operational viscosity and a higher minimum viscosity, which is a win for efficiency and wear protection.

Last edited by EcoCivic; 01-11-2023 at 03:17 AM..
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Old 01-28-2023, 02:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hey guys, it's been a few weeks, so figured it was time for update #4.
The weather is improving here, and I've finally had the chance to go over the car and do some maintenance items and improvements that I had been procrastinating.

As far as fuel economy goes, even though I am still using my steel rims on winter tires, my average lifetime gas mileage has jumped from 23.9mpg (9.8l/100km) to 26.96mpg (8.7L/100km). This is great news for me as nothing has changed other than the weather. I really look forward to installing those new wheels and tires for (hopefully) an even bigger improvement.

The first things on my to-do list were to replace my cabin air filter and install some platinum plugs from NGK. I didn't get any service history on either item when I purchased the car, so I figured it was time to swap them out. The cabin air filter was pretty dirty, but the spark plugs appeared to be in okay shape. One thing that stood out to me, was the discolouration on the plugs. 3 of my plugs had a greenish hue, but one was very purple. Could this mean that one of my cylinders is getting too hot? I would appreciate any input.

Next on the list, I had a transmission fluid flush performed and found out that my steering rack was leaking. Although this is bad news, it appears to be a slow leak, so hopefully, I can get away with just topping up the power steering for now.

That just about wraps up my update, there are a few minor side notes though. I finally "fixed" my OBDII gauge so that it isn't losing power anymore, so I can now use my Scangauge! I'm hoping the "fix" will hold up over time. I also removed the OEM rubber lip/dam that goes under the front bumper of the car, as it was half torn off from an incident with a tall curb in a parking lot...


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Old 01-28-2023, 02:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Even if your power steering leak is small, I recommend at least figuring out from where it is leaking and where the fluid is landing.

A power steering leak ruined the rack and pinion and alternator belt in my Prelude, and apparently the alternator died when the belt snapped.
An oil leak in the Accord ruined the distributor, starter, spark plugs, wires, and caused misfires.
An oil leak in this Camry ruined a hose and a seal.
Unless a leak is on the bottom and will only ruin the ground it will probably cause other components to fail.
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Old 01-28-2023, 02:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
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Did the spark plugs come those pretty colors? I have seen metal like that, but I haven't seen discoloration like that in any spark plug chart:



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Old 01-28-2023, 02:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian View Post
Hey guys, it's been a few weeks, so figured it was time for update #4.
The weather is improving here, and I've finally had the chance to go over the car and do some maintenance items and improvements that I had been procrastinating.

As far as fuel economy goes, even though I am still using my steel rims on winter tires, my average lifetime gas mileage has jumped from 23.9mpg (9.8l/100km) to 26.96mpg (8.7L/100km). This is great news for me as nothing has changed other than the weather. I really look forward to installing those new wheels and tires for (hopefully) an even bigger improvement.

The first things on my to-do list were to replace my cabin air filter and install some platinum plugs from NGK. I didn't get any service history on either item when I purchased the car, so I figured it was time to swap them out. The cabin air filter was pretty dirty, but the spark plugs appeared to be in okay shape. One thing that stood out to me, was the discolouration on the plugs. 3 of my plugs had a greenish hue, but one was very purple. Could this mean that one of my cylinders is getting too hot? I would appreciate any input.

Next on the list, I had a transmission fluid flush performed and found out that my steering rack was leaking. Although this is bad news, it appears to be a slow leak, so hopefully, I can get away with just topping up the power steering for now.

That just about wraps up my update, there are a few minor side notes though. I finally "fixed" my OBDII gauge so that it isn't losing power anymore, so I can now use my Scangauge! I'm hoping the "fix" will hold up over time. I also removed the OEM rubber lip/dam that goes under the front bumper of the car, as it was half torn off from an incident with a tall curb in a parking lot...


Nice, glad to hear you are making progress!

Are you sure the power steering rack itself is leaking? I never saw one of these racks leak, but the steel return pipe coming from the rack rusted out on both my 7th gens, so I'd try to pinpoint exactly where it's leaking from before condemning the entire rack. But if the rack ends up having to be replaced anyways, that would be a great time to upgrade to EPS.

From what I can see on the pictures, those spark plugs look fine to me. I have no explanation for the purple look one of the spark plugs has, maybe it came from a different batch or something. If there was a problem with something like a clogged fuel injector causing an excessively lean air/fuel ratio, I'd expect to see that on the ground strap and electrode area rather than on the outside.

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