Arcimoto, the real thing? ($12k tandem EV trike, 70/130 mi. range)

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Who, besides Ford, hasn't gone bankrupt?

Downsizing into a glorified Agrale might not equal to going bankrupt, but Ford is still not totally safe from this risk.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Sad.

Completely predictable. The business plan never made sense, both the predicted volume and price.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Downsizing into a glorified Agrale might not equal to going bankrupt, but Ford is still not totally safe from this risk.

Ford only avoided bankruptcy in 2009 because they had the luck to have mortgaged everything including the Ford logo in 2007 to borrow $18 billion. They borrowed that money because they were in dire straights - losing $13 billion in 2006.

That combined with many billions in long and short term loans from the US government in 2009 kept them from bankruptcy. Ford is still paying on a $6 billion federal loan from 2009.

(In a twist of fate - not going bankrupt has put Ford at a disadvantage vs GM)

[redpoint5]

Wait, I thought Sandy Munroe being interested meant it was going to be a yuuge success? There's autonomous driving, and in wheel suspension. Torque vectoring...

People don't want expensive open-cockpit trikes in Oregon where it's cold and rainy 5 months a year? That's unbelievable.

I said it elsewhere, but if there was huge profit potential in selling trikes, why aren't the big manufacturers doing it? It would be child's play for them to build it.

I'm sad to see 'er go, but I've been pessimistic from the beginning.

Now, where is the auction going to be held for those rental units?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Wait, I thought Sandy Munroe being interested meant it was going to be a yuuge success? There's autonomous driving, and in wheel suspension. Torque vectoring...

There was a time when Sandy Munroe ran a business where you paid him to tear down and benchmark a competitor's vehicle. He is by no means the only person that does that but he was one of the better known in the USA.

Then he decided he could use that company history to become a Youtube celebrity. Then he started investing in companies he was supposedly objectively reviewing and also taking consulting contracts with them. Once that started you can't take anything he is saying for free seriously. By all means look at his videos - he does a great job of tearing things apart and showing the internal workings but take his opinion with a grain of salt.

[redpoint5]

I've got a similar criticism where somehow he's doing videos on EVs, as if he's an EV expert. You can tell he's not just by listening to him confuse power and energy, or confuse watts and kilowatts...

The only thing I find entertaining and informative from him is when he does a teardown and shares interesting things they found. I'd also trust him to make suggestions about how to make a fender, or something. Beyond that, his content has no value.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

In a twist of fate - not going bankrupt has put Ford at a disadvantage vs GM

As long as Ford can sell so many Rangers overseas, and F-150s in the USDM and its direct influence zones in Canada and Mexico, and effectively turn the Mustang into a reasonable contender to some entry-level models of specialist high-end European sportscar makers, going bankrupt won't be so likely at all. Not to mention how it still exploits the image of the Model T when it points out the F-150 and Super Duty ranges as some sort of indirect replacement...

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

As long as Ford can sell so many Rangers overseas, and F-150s in the USDM and its direct influence zones in Canada and Mexico, and effectively turn the Mustang into a reasonable contender to some entry-level models of specialist high-end European sportscar makers, going bankrupt won't be so likely at all. Not to mention how it still exploits the image of the Model T when it points out the F-150 and Super Duty ranges as some sort of indirect replacement...

Ford isn't in danger of going bankrupt in the near future. Their financials are sound. However they are quickly shrinking into a North American manufacturer of Trucks and SUVs. Looking at their financials they make money in NA and lose money or break even everywhere else. In an automotive world that is quickly consolidating into larger and larger companies that doesn't bode well for the remaining small independents like Ford.

I see a buyout or alliance in their future. VW is the logical partner and they are increasingly partnering on common vehicles.

[redpoint5]

Nothing against Germans, but I dislike when US companies get bought up by German companies.

It should be Ford buying VW. VW is the one that sucks, but somehow people must like unreliable cars.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Nothing against Germans, but I dislike when US companies get bought up by German companies.

It should be Ford buying VW. VW is the one that sucks, but somehow people must like unreliable cars.

VW is successful in almost all markets and one of the largest automakers in the world. It is interesting that their least successful market is the USA - but that shouldn't be surprising as the US market is very different from the rest of the world. We buy vehicles by the pound, have much lower fuel economy regulations, and in general have less advanced cars. In VW's defense a lot of the long term unreliability of their cars comes for US buyers not doing the maintenance correctly and on schedule. There are a large number of US car owners that do nothing but oil changes until something breaks and even then they are likely to use the wrong oil because the correct oil costs more.

Ford was an automaker competing in most global markets but has basically surrendered everything but North America. They can't seem to make the kind of vehicle the rest of the world buys at a profit and have their own reliability issues now that the US has boosted our fuel economy standards just a bit and US vehicles are getting turbos and many speed transmissions. Ford's first dual-clutch transmission was so bad they recently settled the first class action and have 2 more pending.