Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Motorcycles / Scooters
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2021, 01:55 PM   #751 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,578

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 27.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,305
Thanked 3,628 Times in 2,714 Posts
<50v is considered "low voltage" and reasonably safe. It's regulated differently than high voltage >50v.

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-08-2021, 04:51 PM   #752 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,967

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 51.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,689
Thanked 2,207 Times in 1,429 Posts
I did once get an unpleasant shock from 42 Volt DC, locking my hand and all; had to pull free. I treat even 12 Volt with respect now.

It all depends on circumstances; effectively how conductive your body is. Be extra careful when it's warm and you're sweating. DC is extra dangerous as it directs the ions in our cells one way while AC directs them back and forth.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.17 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Investors woes:
"In hindsight, I should have placed a bet on the horse that won the race"
"In hindsight, I should have bet more on that horse"
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 05:35 PM   #753 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,809
Thanks: 5,824
Thanked 6,792 Times in 5,491 Posts
Volts will reach out and touch you, but it's the Amps that will stop your heart. Worst case is up one arm and down the other.

The last comment that was on topic was snax on 2021-02-02. Does anyone think to check whether there's any news about Arcimoto before posting? Who has US$1 Billion in market cap? Who's stonk is up 63.4%?
__________________
.
"Never trust an actor with a gun"
Abraham Lincoln (probably)

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 06:22 PM   #754 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 4,150

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,784
Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,246 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Who's stonk is up 63.4%?
The same stonk that's being shorted 2.67 times more heavily than at the end of November. Maybe we can talk the kids on teh interwebs to try to force another squeeze... or just not get involved.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fat Charlie For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (02-08-2021), samwichse (02-08-2021)
Old 02-08-2021, 07:02 PM   #755 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,381
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,254 Times in 1,113 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
I did once get an unpleasant shock from 42 Volt DC, locking my hand and all; had to pull free. I treat even 12 Volt with respect now.

It all depends on circumstances; effectively how conductive your body is. Be extra careful when it's warm and you're sweating. DC is extra dangerous as it directs the ions in our cells one way while AC directs them back and forth.
Regardless of voltage, I am always extremely careful whenever dealing with some electrical equipment.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
RedDevil (02-09-2021)
Old 02-08-2021, 07:40 PM   #756 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,578

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 27.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,305
Thanked 3,628 Times in 2,714 Posts
I always think I'm being careful despite working on live circuits, and usually I've overlooked something. Shorting supercaps gets your heart pounding, not from the shock, but from the sparks and melting metal.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
RedDevil (02-09-2021)
Old 02-08-2021, 07:46 PM   #757 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,433

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I'm constantly amazed at how slow the auto industry is to innovate considering the fierce competition.
The answer is cost and economy of scale. Yes, competition is fierce - especially on the cost of a car. So companies only spend money on things that customer care about or thing required by regulation. Customers don't care what voltage is used for their electrical accessories.

So while 48V is better for the modern car's needs someone has to take the first step. Yes, there are dozens of automakers but they are mostly pulling for an overlapping pool of suppliers which creates huge economy of scale. A company like Denso or Delco is tooled up to make 12v alternators. Yes, they vary in detail from one car to another but the basic design and tooling are the same. Most of the tier 2, 3, 4... components are the same and mixed and matched in different ways. So the first company that switches to 48V is going to pay a huge premium to help tool up those suppliers to make a small number of parts. Yes, Toyota might sell 400K RAV4s but there are 80 million cars sold a year and almost all of them have 12v electronics. They also can't just slowly switch a piece at a time, all the accessories need to change and you would likely add a couple hundred dollars to the cost of the car in an industry that gets excited about saving a penny. (We can't add $1 to a vehicle without approval from the C-suite)

So something has to push the move to 48V. 48V hybrids have been around for more than a decade but never caught on. They systems work great and improve fuel economy about 15% but they cost money and customers were not willing to pay the $750 - $1000 for a 48V hybrid system.

Enter the EU's 2020 CO2 regulations. With the EU's 95 g/km CO2 limit $1000 to save 15% is cheap. The EU fine is 95 euro per g/km CO2 and one MPG = 5457 g/km CO2. Automakers don't have a choice and everyone has to meet those CO2 limits so there is no waiting for someone else to go first. Those 48V hybrids will drive the economy of scale on the 48V components to bring down the cost to a point it might make sense to move away from 12V.

(In 2020 13% of vehicles sold in the EU were 48V hybrids. That is expected to jump to 50% in 2025)

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
48v should have been standard from the beginning. How did it start with 12v?
In the beginning the only thing electric on a car was the lights. 6V batteries were enough for that. As more things were added it jumped to 12V. We are well past the time to jump again but, again, $$$$.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
MetroMPG (02-15-2021), redpoint5 (02-08-2021)
Old 02-08-2021, 11:18 PM   #758 (permalink)
Thalmaturge
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The edge of nowhere
Posts: 1,119

Go Pod - '00 Honda Insight AC

The Tinyvan - '07 Honda Fit Sport

Spicy Italian - '13 Fiat 500 Abarth
Thanks: 686
Thanked 607 Times in 404 Posts
Keep in mind you're talking about going from a 6-cell lead acid battery to a 24 cell battery, too. That's going to be an expensive little devil.

Last edited by samwichse; 02-08-2021 at 11:19 PM.. Reason: S
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 12:11 AM   #759 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,809
Thanks: 5,824
Thanked 6,792 Times in 5,491 Posts
In the beginning the only thing electric on a car was the lights magneto. Hand-crank starter and acetylene lights.
__________________
.
"Never trust an actor with a gun"
Abraham Lincoln (probably)

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2021, 12:25 AM   #760 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,433

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwichse View Post
Keep in mind you're talking about going from a 6-cell lead acid battery to a 24 cell battery, too. That's going to be an expensive little devil.
48V auto batteries are generally Li-Ion. More expensive than a regular lead acid but also much longer lasting.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com