BORPower additive?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Logic

Pursuit for Better Fuel Economy
Reducing Engine Friction Helps Maxing out Miles per Gallon
"...In an internal combustion engine, estimat-
ed 10–20% energy is lost due to friction..."

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...X2RpcmVjdCJ9fQ

Friction Modelling for Internal Combustion Engines
D. Dowson, C.M. Taylor and Lisheng Yang
Institute of Tribology, Department of Mechanical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds, LS2 9JT,
United Kingdom.

"...It is well known that only about 12% of the
energy input to an automobile engine is made
available as propulsive energy to overcome tyre
friction and aerodynamic drag [ 1,2]. The indicated
power of about 40%, obtained after deducting the
losses associated with cylinder cooling (.: 30%) and
the exhaust gases (= 30%), is further reduced to an
engine brake power of about 25% due to air
pumping in the engine (=3-6'%0) and friction losses
in the tribological components such as the bearings,
valve train and piston assemblies (~12-9%).It is the
latter quantities that are the subject of this paper
and although they typically represents only about
9% of the initial energy release, they do account for
some 30%-40% of the all important engine brake
power.


Ok, so lets talk about these guys

Who are they..? anl.gov... In the USA.

https://www.anl.gov/

https://www.anl.gov/topic/success-story

These are the people who did and published the initial studies on the tribological properties
of Boric Acid in engine oil etc...

Do look them up!
Decide if they seem like the people who publish BS?

Sometimes during a lifetime new inventions come out.
Fire, the wheel, iron, engines electricity, computers, etc-etc all did.

When someone like them say; this stuff REALLY reduces friction, its like someone saying; this wire makes electricity when you wave magnets at it.
WhoTF woulda believed that!?

Freshly cut aluminum will quickly form a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the newly exposed surface.
Ceramic...
It stops further attack from the air, etc.
A hard, thin ceramic barrier.

Just air? What can you form if you try some other stuff on metal surfaces?
That's what these guys did.

We as the human race got here by being inquisitive.
It's fun! You learn new stuff!
We owe it to ourselves to check. For the joy of learning.
I checked. It worked. I learned a lot.

1) The actual energy loss due to engine friction, at 30-mph is less than 3%.
2) The actual energy loss due to engine friction, at 70-mph is less than 5%.
3) Your first reference isn't acquainted with reality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) The value of only 12% of energy available at the traction interface of an automobile can only be made within the context of 'well-to-wheels' thermal efficiency, and of 'only' a gasoline-powered automobile.
5) Automobiles of up to 43.2% efficiency are given by your own reporting, at different Forums here at EcoModder.com, a discrepancy of 31.2%. What's it going to be?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6) The University of Leeds is going to have to defend their claim of 9%-to 12% energy loss due to engine friction. I call BS.
7) University of Leeds values for 'pumpimg losses' I also call BS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8) Do your 'scientists' know that 'Boron-Nitrogen' has been an oil additive since 1977?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9) What possible benefit can accrue to an automobile engine by arbitrarily plating aluminum oxide onto 'any' of it's surfaces ? You still do not comprehend automobile engine lubrication!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10) Anti-oxidant packages have been added to 'motor oil' for over 47-years! What on Earth do you think could be the benefit of a 'ceramic barrier '?
Again, again, you don't seem to the have the vaguest idea how an automotive lubrication system operates. And I'm beginning to believe that a lot of university PhD candidates don't either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11) I don't recognize any 'science' conducted on your part.
12) I have zero confidence in your claims.
13) My experience is that, you haven't learned anything about the science of Tribology. You just keep offering more and more sophisticated versions of the same falsehoods. I believe it to be of no benefit to the EcoModder community. Dangerous! Fact-averse. 'Disputation' vs scientific debate.

[freebeard]

I may not know tribology, but I follow Scott Adams on persuasion. Laundry lists are not persuasive. Better to flesh out one point than throw everything at the wall and hope. Which of your thirteen claims is paramount?

6) The University of Leeds is going to have to defend their claim... I call BS.

What obligates U of Leeds in this case?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I may not know tribology, but I follow Scott Adams on persuasion. Laundry lists are not persuasive. Better to flesh out one point than throw everything at the wall and hope. Which of your thirteen claims is paramount?

What obligates U of Leeds in this case?

Perhaps you could go learn something about it, then come back with some actionable information, rather than attempt to steer the narrative away from the topic.

[freebeard]

Perhaps you could go learn something about it, then come back with some actionable information, rather than attempt to steer the narrative away from the topic.

It was a rhetorical flourish. I'm probably somewhere above the median.

My hope was to refine the discourse, not steer it. A little concision goes a long way.

[Logic]

The energy lost to friction, at any looked at rpm, numbers are what they are.
The question is what do they become, IF according the (lying? conniving? supposed?) scientists at Argonne National Labs you were able to: "...the friction coefficients are reduced by 10 to over 1000% below those of the unmixed lubricant itself.."

WHY
is it necessary for yet another research institute to prove to you
what you can easily prove too yourself:

Lets say you have a tired ball bearing lying around.
You pop of the seals. (as described all over the net)
You oil it with a mixture of oil and Boric powder and a bit of hot water.
(I'd give instructions if anyone cared)
You spin it with a drilling machine or something, while adding enough heat, or preferably steam, to keep the water simmering off to condition it.
You see if it worked.

Old computer fans.
Near death from age/wear lawn mowers.
etc.
All sorts of things will suffice.

You can prove to YOU if it works.

The only real problem some may have with such an endeavor is the possibility that it may well work..?

[Logic]

I also NB that we are not just discussing (ye right!) friction and wear reduction:

We also need to consider the ~0.5 thickness of this layer:
In a piston and sleeve the play taken up by this frangible (for lack of a better word) layer is 2 microns in diameter/s...

• What does that do for compression?
• What does it do for the pesky charge hiding in the area enclosed by the piston, sleeve and top ring?
• What does the removal of 2 microns of play with a much smoother surface do to optimize the stock pressurized lubrication of the main etc bearings in an engine? (Yes the electron microscope? pictures do show a smoother surface if you bother to look)
• What happens when you remove 2 microns per link from a run in to somewhat worn cam chain?
• What happens if there is 1 micron less valve clearance?

[Logic]

Originally Posted by aerohead

1) The actual energy loss due to engine friction, at 30-mph is less than 3%.
2) The actual energy loss due to engine friction, at 70-mph is less than 5%.
3) Your first reference isn't acquainted with reality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) The value of only 12% of energy available at the traction interface of an automobile can only be made within the context of 'well-to-wheels' thermal efficiency, and of 'only' a gasoline-powered automobile.
5) Automobiles of up to 43.2% efficiency are given by your own reporting, at different Forums here at EcoModder.com, a discrepancy of 31.2%. What's it going to be?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6) The University of Leeds is going to have to defend their claim of 9%-to 12% energy loss due to engine friction. I call BS.
7) University of Leeds values for 'pumpimg losses' I also call BS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8) Do your 'scientists' know that 'Boron-Nitrogen' has been an oil additive since 1977?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9) What possible benefit can accrue to an automobile engine by arbitrarily plating aluminum oxide onto 'any' of it's surfaces ? You still do not comprehend automobile engine lubrication!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10) Anti-oxidant packages have been added to 'motor oil' for over 47-years! What on Earth do you think could be the benefit of a 'ceramic barrier '?
Again, again, you don't seem to the have the vaguest idea how an automotive lubrication system operates. And I'm beginning to believe that a lot of university PhD candidates don't either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11) I don't recognize any 'science' conducted on your part.
12) I have zero confidence in your claims.
13) My experience is that, you haven't learned anything about the science of Tribology. You just keep offering more and more sophisticated versions of the same falsehoods. I believe it to be of no benefit to the EcoModder community. Dangerous! Fact-averse. 'Disputation' vs scientific debate.

Reading between the lines here; all i see is a concerted, if perhaps unconscious effort, to piss me off. Probably in an effort to get me to say something bannable and get rid of me.
Whats that actually about..?

No effort to check on Argonne National Labs and their reputation?

My scientists?
If that's the case; any medication you are currently taking is based on BS dreamed up by 'My Scientists'
You are replying to this thread on a contraption dreamed up by 'My Scientists'
Do you hear yourself..?

Boron compounds since wheneverTF have not been Boric Acid that modifies metal surfaces rather than changes the oil chemistry.

Go to Argonne National Labs and talk to the lubrication researchers there as you have to me.
What would happen?
If they have the brain power to keep their emotions in check you would simply be kicked out.
If not; you would probably require medical attention!

You have gone beyond plain rude into the realm of trying to start a fight in this thread.

[freebeard]

You oil it...
You spin it...
You see if it worked.

Have you done this? [not trying to start anything]

Might one chuck it in a drill motor and hold it in a saucepan on a stove? Hold it over an open flame?

[Logic]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Have you done this? [not trying to start anything]

Might one chuck it in a drill motor and hold it in a saucepan on a stove? Hold it over an open flame?

I have oiled 2 house fans (old style good quality fans with oiling holes) and 2 computer fans freebeard.
But what I did was:
Crush a bit of boric acid powder in a mortar and pestle through a piece of shrink wrap to keep all the fine dust in.
I did this while watching TV.

Then I added boiling water drop by drop to the powder till I got a consistency similar to the engine oil I used.
Then I just mixed in the oil at a ratio of around 60-70% oil to boric mixture and just oiled the fans as usual.

There was no rush (for me) to see if it worked so I just left the reaction of Boric acid with the bearing surfaces to time and air humidity.

The fans are all still turning and take longer to spin down.
The tired at the time computer fans feel tighter on their shafts to me and are both still spinning away and silently.

That's about as close as I have gotten to my suggested 'Fast Treating' of an old ball bearing experiment.

In an automobile engine you have heat, water, agitation, pressure and a filter to catch any undissolved powder.

I would say that one could simply make a mixture as described and then spin the bearing in some steam.
You could jury rig the bearing to spin over some boiling water in a sauspan or jury rig a kettle with some wet cloths (to seal) and a bit of pipe to better direct the steam.

As Boric Oxide is not very soluble in tap temperature water the idea here is to keep the bit of water in the mixture hot, while slowly adding to it over time to dissolve more of the powder.
ie: Try recreate the conditions in an engine sump as best you can.

If you try this on a tired bearing; do do a clean and std lube to get a baseline feel for the bearing 1st.
Then wash it out again before the experiment.
It will probably take a good while longer (and stopping to add more mixture) than a car engine does to 'take'.

If you have a tired computer fan and want to take the long road; just do what I did.

Thx for asking / your interest. It means a lot at this point.

[Logic]

Nano-boric acid makes motor oil more slippery
https://www.anl.gov/article/nanobori...-more-slippery

On the Friction and Wear Performance of Boric Acid Lubricant Combinations in Extended Duration Operations
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ion_Operations

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsea...oadPdf/6025306

Boric acid as a lubricating fuel additive – Simplified lab experiments to understand fuel consumption reduction in field test
panelElin Larsson, Petra Olander, Staffan Jacobson
Ångström Tribomaterials Group, Uppsala University, Box 534, 751 21 Uppsala, Sweden

In field tests, a boric acid based fuel additive has led to reduced fuel consumption. The reduction was substantial, an average of 6 and 10% in passenger cars and diesel generators respectively...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...43164817302545


Lubrication Properties of Vegetable Oils Combined with Boric Acid and Determination of Their Effects on Wear
The atoms on each layer are closely packed and strongly bonded to each other.
The atomic layers themselves are 0.318 nm apart from each other and held together by weak Van der Waals forces.
Under shear stresses of sliding contact, the crystalline layers align themselves parallel to the direction of relative motion; once so aligned, they can slide over one another with relative ease and thus provide low friction coefficients

...the lubricant combination was able to provide a continuous hydrodynamic lift and a low shear resistance within the contact interface to function as an excellent lubricant.

Boron crystals prevent damages caused by friction and wear by physically covering
the pin and disc surfaces with a layer of film as hard as diamond.
Due to the factthat boron is as hard as diamond and is an excellent heat conductor, friction coefficient occurred at lower levels than commercial mineral oil and canola oil with an increase in the weight (120 and 180 N).

The mechanical movements and pressure of metal surfaces and boron crystals that display a homogeneous distribution fill the gaps on the metal surface and form an extreme lubricant and protective film layer.
This thin layer of film formed by strong boron crystals increases the dynamic and thermal resistance of the metal by completely preventing rupture in inner layers thanks to its tendency to stop dislocation movements occurring as a result of heat and high pressure and causes a decrease in friction coefficient.
As the film layers that form on the surface of the metal rub one another, they prevent wear and increase the duration of the components.
These spherical-looking particles that float in the oil freely and homogenously prevent loss of energy acting as balls.
Boric oxide film continuously replenished boric acid to the sliding contact under
ambient conditions.,..

...the measured wear rate at the completion of the experiments was
2.5 times less than that of the base canola oil...
https://sci-hub.ru/https://www.tandf...67030802606053


Influence of boric acid additive size on green lubricant performance
In the present investigation, green (environmentally benign) lubricant combinations were prepared by homogeneously mixing nano- (20 nm), sub-micrometre- (600 nm average size) and micrometre-scale (4 μm average size) boric acid powder additives with canola oil in a vortex generator. As a basis for comparison, lubricants of base canola oil and canola oil mixed with MoS2 powder (ranging from 0.5 to 10 μm) were also prepared. Friction and wear experiments were carried out on the prepared lubricants using a pin-on-disc apparatus under ambient conditions. Based on the experiments, the nanoscale (20 nm) particle boric acid additive lubricants significantly outperformed all of the other lubricants with respect to frictional and wear performance. In fact, the nanoscale boric acid powder-based lubricants exhibited a wear rate more than an order of magnitude lower than the MoS2 and larger sized boric acid additive-based lubricants. It was also discovered that the oil mixed with a combination of sub-micrometre- and micrometre-scale boric acid powder additives exhibited better friction and wear performance than the canola oil mixed with sub-micrometre- or micrometre-scale boric acid additives alone.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rsta.2010.0183

Investigation of the Effects of Boron Additives on the Performance of Engine Oil
In this study, the effect of boron compounds on lubrication oils was investigated using a pin-on-disc type test apparatus. For this purpose, base oils containing two types of boron compounds were studied at different concentrations. The results were evaluated from the point of formation of a tribofilm in boundary or mixed lubrication conditions. The obtained results showed that the addition of boron compounds decreased the coefficient of friction from 10 to 50% under different test conditions. The optimum concentration ratio was determined as 4 wt% for boric acid (H3BO3) and 4 wt% for hexagonal boron nitride (hBN). Fuel consumption experiments were also carried out for both optimum concentration ratios using a 170-kW diesel engine. Results indicate a decrease of 3.6 and 2.7% in fuel consumption with boric acid and boron nitride additives, respectively.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...04.2014.909549


Effect of surfactant on tribological performance and tribochemistry of boric acid based colloidal lubricants
J-H Kim, K K Mistry, N Matsumoto, V Sista, O L Eryilmaz & A Erdemir

...The base lubricants investigated included pure polyal-
phaolefin oil of viscosity grade 4 (known as PAO 4; 4?1
cSt at 100uC) mainly because of its higher operating
temperature and good resistance to oxidation.12–14 The same
oil was blended with boric acid particles at different
concentrations with and without the use of a surfactant
and tested under the same tribological test conditions.
The surfactant used for this study was sorbitan trioleate
(STOMO)...

The friction coefficients were reduced by 58 and 42%
respectively, as compared to the base oil and fully
formulated oil. In addition, wear scar diameter has also
been reduced from 272 mm for base oil to 142 mm after
adding the 1 wt-% STOMO in base oil.

https://sci-hub.ru/10.1179/1751584x12y.0000000016
Nice pics of untreated and treated surfaces.

Lots more to come. (Doing) This gets tired fast due to all the research available and due to to fact that anyone actually interested could do this easily themselves.