Brake drag reduction clips

[Tesla]

Did that in an earlier post,
simple coastdown test showing consistant improvement and breaking response test showing no negligable braking efficiency reduction, maybe someone else can think of better criteria to test.

ps - discussion is always a pleasure Frank, thanks.

[nemo]

Below is a chat from Raybestos. I would seem to indicate that the clips do work and that repeated braking also increases drag. The lower line represents with clips installed. While they claim a 49% reduction in drag in the first 10 seconds, there is no indication of the overall reduction. As this is from a sales brochure it probably represents a best case.








Looks like Redneck posed about this back in post # 23


Link for complete PDF
http://www.raybestoschassis.com/wps/...1df63649a75f53

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Tesla

Some say they put on a K & N filter and got 2 mpg improvement and instantly there is a cry of ABA testing & Unicorns.
Put on these springs and say my wheel spins better when on a stand and everyone applauds.
What's the difference?, prove the benefit or toss it in with the Unicorns

I agree that better testing is needed, and there seems to be less ABA style testing on this site than when I joined it. Tank-to-tank measures are less effective. But I think you're looking at the categories in zero-sum isolation. I don't think the moderators look at it as a question of only two choices: "proved via ABA testing" or "it's a unicorn." There is a wide gray area in between those two choices, full with mods we do that it would be better to test but that cannot be tested easily, either because install/removal is too time-consuming or because the potential benefit will be so small the test would not be considered reliable anyway. Those things don't go into the unicorn corral either. I think that's appropriate. The forum page description of the corral emphasizes that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There are no extraordinary claims here, as cbaber has already pointed out. If these little clips had massive 15% FE gain claims on them, then we know we'd be debating in the corral right now. But as cbaber has already pointed out, not only are there no extraordinary claims, the clips are OEM installed on some cars.

But I agree there should be more ABA testing, and that these clips should be considered unproven.

[Tesla]

Thanks for posting some data nemo,
The format of the data suggests the benefit lies in the immediate short term post brake application and hence one could infer that in the longer term the difference is negligable.
So if you're travel is mainly around town then you may get some benefit, but if you do mostly highway km, then unlikely to get any benefit.
The data looks like it came off a dyno, which is only indicative and not representative of real world application, with real world vibration and movement the actual difference is likely to be significantly less.

California98Civic,
I take on board what you are saying and I don't have it in for these clips, they just became a good topic of conversation.
I suppose the one thing I latched on to was the possibility of a safety issue, particularly with the earlier comments of DIY using bicycle spokes, if spring tension and travel is too great, then they may actually push the piston back too far back into the seal over an extended drive period.
I still think someone should try to make some form of assessment on braking effectiveness, I know it's a PITA, but safety comes before economy.

Anyway, I've gone on enough about the potential safety issues to be considered, so I'll just leave it there.

[RedDevil]

I do not have an ABA test result, and I will never have it. I will not remove the springs as I feel they make for a more predictable brake behaviour.
I do have some kind of AB data though; the 'hot brake' test.

When I just got my car I was glad with the FE, but not really impressed. There seemed to be bad days; low wind, reasonable temperature, moderate driving, but not able to get the same figures as the previous day under worse circumstances.

After one of these days I saw the air vibrate in one of the wheel wells. Heat! Sure enough, the disk was almost too hot to touch. But only on that wheel; the others were lukewarm.
After that I regularly check brake temp after a drive, esp. when FE is less than hoped for. And sure enough, I had several hot brakes in the course of half a year; usually the left front but sometimes another, even the smaller rear brakes take turns.
Now that I have the extra springs up front I only have the occasional hot rear disk.

No hard numbers; the decision to check them is subjective after all. But a night and day difference for this one aspect.

[freebeard]

After one of these days I saw the air vibrate in one of the wheel wells. Heat! Sure enough, the disk was almost too hot to touch.

Perceptible Brownian movement? I'm impressed.

One of my mechanics has a hand-held infra-red thermometer. It'd pretty neat. You could just walk around the car with one and get temps to 1°, compare the disk to the hub, etc.

[RedDevil]

Not Brownian movement, just hot air rising. I wear glasses, not a microscope
The conversion layer between cold and hot air will slightly bend light, therefore you can see the air shimmer and even mirror on a straight hot road.
At the time I was into LEDs etc. and was looking at my taillight when I saw something move in the corner of my eye. It was the hot air escaping out of the top of the front wheel well against a background of vertical fine stripes (reedlike plants.)

We have a pair of ear thermometers; my wife disliked the first one. I'll ask her if I can use it; it is hand-held and it measures infrared, right?
She just read this, said "You guys are out of your minds". That's approvement, I guess

[nemo]

Installed a set on the front of the 06 Pontiac. No plans for testing.

[TheIVJackal]

Originally Posted by arcosine

I stopped at NAPA, but they didn't have them. So I just bent up a a set from two old bicycle spokes. My first impression is there is no brake drag! The car use to come to a full stop and there was always some drag after appling the brakes. Now there is not and it rolls on the slightest grade, even after braking! The brake petal doesn't go down any further than before.

Cost $0.00

The clamp keeps the pads together before assembling the caliper.

Hoorah for FREE! Definitely going to consider doing this for my car as I have spokes laying around my house. My wheels drag, brakes have been bled but did not solve the problem, hopefully these help! Thanks for the idea.

[101Volts]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

I do have some kind of AB data though; the 'hot brake' test.

When I just got my car I was glad with the FE, but not really impressed. There seemed to be bad days; low wind, reasonable temperature, moderate driving, but not able to get the same figures as the previous day under worse circumstances.

After one of these days I saw the air vibrate in one of the wheel wells. Heat! Sure enough, the disk was almost too hot to touch. But only on that wheel; the others were lukewarm.
After that I regularly check brake temp after a drive, esp. when FE is less than hoped for. And sure enough, I had several hot brakes in the course of half a year; usually the left front but sometimes another, even the smaller rear brakes take turns.
Now that I have the extra springs up front I only have the occasional hot rear disk.

No hard numbers; the decision to check them is subjective after all. But a night and day difference for this one aspect.

The 1997 Plymouth Voyager my Father owned had a similar problem once but it was much hotter and was smoking when I noticed it; It melted a hubcap out of shape! I think if brake drag reduction clips would help against that sort of thing they could be worth looking into. (Edit: Depending on if it's necessary for the particular vehicle.)

Come to think of it, If that smoke wasn't noted perhaps the car would've caught on fire or the tire would've popped? At this moment I don't know.