Buy a trailer (instead of a pickup truck)

[adam728]

Originally Posted by mechman600

I pulled a 1500 lb (loaded) tent trailer with a Toyota Matrix through the Canadian Rockies. All loaded up with people and gear it weighed 5200 lbs at a truck scale. It worked fine.

So like jamesgf said, light loads.

I know it's all relative based on what you are used to or comparing too, but a 1500 lb trailer and fully loaded 5200 lb trailer/tow rig is a very light combo. My 3/4 ton is light by 3/4 ton standards, I typically tip the scales with an empty truck (other than myself) between 5180 and 5240 lbs. My father's dovetails is a fairly light trailer, we use it to haul cars or small tractors, it's 1800 lbs empty.

But like I said, it's all relative. If a load of bicycles and camping gear is a big load for someone, then 1000 lbs might be all they'll ever haul. Or you could be like my buddy and hauling 15K worth of equipment around to make a living.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by richierocket

Hi jamesqf, I would have to question your numbers. I have towed with my last two cars, a '98 civic and a '12 sonic. I would not consider either of these 'larger cars', yet I could safely tow 700-800 lbs loads.

What exactly is load here? Is it the weight of the cargo, or of trailer plus cargo? (And in the tent trailer case, I would dispense with the trailer part, and use my under 5 lbs tent :-))

However, this is not one size fits all! If the numbers works out for you great, but not for me...

Your plan requires paying for the reg, insurance, taxes, depreciation, and maintenance on a second vehicle, money and personal time. No good for me...

Sure, one size doesn't fit all. In my case, both vehicles are fully depreciated, reg & insurance for the second vehicle is maybe an extra $150/yr, and I have a second vehicle available if the first isn't usable for some reason. (Or in case we have over 6" of snow on the roads: despite the Insight's many good qualities, it really sucks as a snowplow :-)) I live some distance from town, so renting a truck for occasional loads would involve quite a bit of extra time & cost.

[oil pan 4]

Throw a tent on my big flat trailer bed and it becomes a camper.

[richierocket]

jamesqf, I stated in my post what my loads were: "motorcycles, furniture, appliances, etc". When I say "800-900 load", I mean the "load", not including trailer. For me, in my life situation, it works fine, and I don't have to worry about maintaining a truck for occasional use, and I have no heavy loads anyway.

I think we are misunderstanding each other. The whole point of this thread was for an "average" joe living in the suburbs (close to a Home Depot) and thinking that he "needs" a pick-up truck for minor tasks. So he runs a couple trash cans down to the town dump once a week and hauls a few loads per year of firewood, furniture, whatever. THEN he commutes to work everyday in that same gas hog truck!

If someone needs to haul farm equipment, heavy stuff, etc. then of course they need a truck, this thread doesn't apply to them!
If someone (like you) lives in a more rural area and has the mechanical skills, time, need, to have two vehicles, then great, this thread does not apply to you. It's great that you have a fuel efficient second car, some people don't want or can't have a second vehicle.

For someone who only has one vehicle and only has "average & occasional" household loads to haul, the theme of this thread is: if you have only one vehicle, drive a car and have a trailer instead of a gas-hog pick-up truck.
Does that make sense?

Rich

Originally Posted by jamesqf

What exactly is load here? Is it the weight of the cargo, or of trailer plus cargo? (And in the tent trailer case, I would dispense with the trailer part, and use my under 5 lbs tent :-))

Sure, one size doesn't fit all. In my case, both vehicles are fully depreciated, reg & insurance for the second vehicle is maybe an extra $150/yr, and I have a second vehicle available if the first isn't usable for some reason. (Or in case we have over 6" of snow on the roads: despite the Insight's many good qualities, it really sucks as a snowplow :-)) I live some distance from town, so renting a truck for occasional loads would involve quite a bit of extra time & cost.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by richierocket

I think we are misunderstanding each other. The whole point of this thread was for an "average" joe living in the suburbs (close to a Home Depot) and thinking that he "needs" a pick-up truck for minor tasks.

Indeed a misunderstanding, on several levels. First, that 'average' (I'm sure there's a better word) people really do live in suburbs (or worse, urbs). Second, that those were the kinds of people under discussion. Yes, I know there are plenty of deprived people who live in such places, or in 3rd/4th worlds countries, and while I may feel a good bit of pity for them, the way they live is, I think, pretty much irrelevant to discussions here.

So he runs a couple trash cans down to the town dump once a week and hauls a few loads per year of firewood, furniture, whatever. THEN he commutes to work everyday in that same gas hog truck!

But wasn't that my argument? That using a single vehicle for driving around 1-2 people (whether it's commuting or recreation) AND hauling is often not going to be an optimal solution, whether that single vehicle is a truck, or a car oversized and overpowered enough to pull a trailer. And similarly, that there are benefits, such as redundancy, to owning two vehicles, while the costs of two reasonably-used ones can be less (often much less) than the costs of one fancy new one.

For someone who only has one vehicle and only has "average & occasional" household loads to haul, the theme of this thread is: if you have only one vehicle, drive a car and have a trailer instead of a gas-hog pick-up truck.
Does that make sense?

If you're limiting possible solutions to the one-vehicle box, sure. I'm just saying that better solutions might be found outside that box.

[freebeard]

Years ago I bought a 1/4-ton trailer, but I didn't want to tow it until I'd dealt with the tires and bearing, so I rented a bigger trailer to haul it in. The load on my VW Squareback was ~50% greater than the loaded 1/4 ton trailer would have been. I made it home, but that was the last gasp for the engine in the car.

[user removed]

My $300 Sentra and $650 Suzuki are working fine for me. If I need more capacity I can make two trips, while getting 37MPG in the car and 75MPG with the bike. If that is not enough I could rent or borrow up to 5 tons cargo capacity for the cost of fuel. If that mileage isn't good enough I could use the Super Cub at 170 MPG. It cost me $250.

regards
mech

[richierocket]

Oh yes, major misunderstandings here. I believe the idea of this thread is for people like one friend of mine who had only one vehicle, a pick-up. He claimed he needed it to haul "stuff"...turns out it was all small, occasional loads. He now has a small car and a trailer. Isn't that a better than keeping the truck? (See title of this thread)

Kudos to you for finding a great solution for your requirements! I guess we'll have to disagree...

I don't consider my previous '98 Civic or current '12 Sonic "oversized and overpowered". That just seems funny to me I see people commuting alone everyday in giant 300+hp SUVs!
People with families can't get by with a 2 person Insight, as you do...
I put snow tires on my Sonic and it does fine in the snow where I live and the roads I drive on.
Not everyone has the mechanical know-how or time to maintain an older "fully depreciated" vehicle.

As I wrote earlier, there is no black and white, no one size fits all. My life situation is satisfied with a small commuter car and a trailer. I'm happy with that.

Cheers,
Rich

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Indeed a misunderstanding, on several levels. First, that 'average' (I'm sure there's a better word) people really do live in suburbs (or worse, urbs). Second, that those were the kinds of people under discussion. Yes, I know there are plenty of deprived people who live in such places, or in 3rd/4th worlds countries, and while I may feel a good bit of pity for them, the way they live is, I think, pretty much irrelevant to discussions here.

But wasn't that my argument? That using a single vehicle for driving around 1-2 people (whether it's commuting or recreation) AND hauling is often not going to be an optimal solution, whether that single vehicle is a truck, or a car oversized and overpowered enough to pull a trailer. And similarly, that there are benefits, such as redundancy, to owning two vehicles, while the costs of two reasonably-used ones can be less (often much less) than the costs of one fancy new one.

If you're limiting possible solutions to the one-vehicle box, sure. I'm just saying that better solutions might be found outside that box.

[Xist]

I imagine that some families manage adequately without any cars and we have discussed on here the growing trend of young people to say that they do not need to learn how to drive. I have mentioned the people that work with my ex-girlfriend that did not have cars, but all of them had smart phones!

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by richierocket

He now has a small car and a trailer. Isn't that a better than keeping the truck? (See title of this thread)

Not necessarily, depending on the cost of the truck. See above for all the reasons that having two vehicles might be an even better solution.

Kudos to you for finding a great solution for your requirements! I guess we'll have to disagree...

I see people commuting alone everyday in giant 300+hp SUVs!
People with families can't get by with a 2 person Insight, as you do...

Am I the only one who sees a logical contradiction here? As in the family might be better off with 1 Insight for the single-person commute, plus a van for hauling the family.

I put snow tires on my Sonic and it does fine in the snow where I live and the roads I drive on.

I guess you don't live where I do :-) Around here, a lot of the non-main roads don't see plows that often. Even in town, after a big snow (which might not happen every year), a good many residential streets will wait weeks before being plowed - or melting, whichever comes first :-)