Changing oil not Necessary

[t vago]

Originally Posted by Artan

This increases my believe more and more that the oil should not be changed. Because plain bearings are stronger than ball bearings.

Hey, go right on ahead and leave your oil in there.

When your engine starts to lose power and your fuel economy starts to drop, you can thank yourself. When your car starts blowing light blue smoke out its tailpipe, you can thank yourself. Don't blame us, though. We warned you.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Artan

This increases my believe more and more that the oil should not be changed. Because plain bearings are stronger than ball bearings.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_oil:

In engines, there is inevitably some exposure of the oil to products of internal combustion, and microscopic coke particles from black soot accumulate in the oil during operation. Also the rubbing of metal engine parts inevitably produces some microscopic metallic particles from the wearing of the surfaces. Such particles could circulate in the oil and grind against the part surfaces causing wear. The oil filter removes many of the particles and sludge, but eventually the oil filter can become clogged, if used for extremely long periods. The motor oil and especially the additives also undergo thermal and mechanical degradation. For these reasons, the oil and the oil filter need to be periodically replaced. While there is a full industry surrounding regular oil changes and maintenance, an oil change is a fairly simple operation that most car owners can do themselves.

[JRMichler]

Good clean oil is important on the cam lobes. The high loads and small contact area result in a thin oil film. Dirt in the oil acts like grinding compound and wipes out the cam lobes.

I have seen two engines with the cam lobes destroyed. One was a lawn mower engine owned by a man that believed that those small engines could tolerate dirty oil, so he never changed it. The other was a car owned by a man that bought it cheap and ran it into the ground without oil changes.

[jkv357]

Originally Posted by JRMichler

Good clean oil is important on the cam lobes. The high loads and small contact area result in a thin oil film. Dirt in the oil acts like grinding compound and wipes out the cam lobes.
(SNIP)

That may be even more true now that regular auto oils have lower levels of Zinc and Phosphorus (ZDDP) to help the catalyst have a longer lifespan. The lower levels can present galling problems for cams with non-roller lifters - especially at cold start-up.

"Racing" oils generally have higher levels, as do most cycle-specific oils.

Most, but not all, diesel oils still have higher levels. One interesting note about Shell Rotella - conventional and synthetic multigrade oils both have high levels, but the straight-grades don't. Go figure...

[Artan]

[QUOTE=Patrick;267421]From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_oil:

In engines, there is inevitably some exposure of the oil to products of internal combustion, and microscopic coke particles from black soot accumulate in the oil during operation. Also the rubbing of metal engine parts inevitably produces some microscopic metallic particles from the wearing of the surfaces. Such particles could circulate in the oil and grind against the part surfaces causing wear. The oil filter removes many of the particles and sludge, but eventually the oil filter can become clogged, if used for extremely long periods. The motor oil and especially the additives also undergo thermal and mechanical degradation. For these reasons, the oil and the oil filter need to be periodically replaced. While there is a full industry surrounding regular oil changes and maintenance, an oil change is a fairly simple operation that most car owners can do themselves.[/QUOTE]


Looking at my car since 35.000 km (22.000 miles) no oil change, oil is thin same as new one, oil filter has been changed at 30.000 km (the oil filter was not damaged nor clogged but i changed it), the car is running perfectly, somehow i dont believe i really dont trust these sayings that the oil brakes down and we need to change it as often as they say.

Anyway I will test my car and even if it brakes down i dont care i want to see for how long it will go without oil change. I strongly believe that the engine will run up to a milion miles with the same oil, full synthetic.

My belive is that the engine gets destroyed and wears out only if driven reclessly, inapropriate oil in the engine (worse than driving reclessly), low quality oil (mineral or half synthetic), if coolants leaks in the oil, bad air filter (clogged) needs to be cleaned with air pressure gun every 1000 miles (i do it often than that)(especially diesel engines need more air than gasoline engines)), and other things that will go out of normal operation like no coolant or bad fan so the engines overheats.

[dremd]

I know I've said all of this before in this thread,

Oil basically never breaks down from wear, if you are shearing your oil you have serious issues.

Additive packages DO wear, this is why for extended drain intervals you need a TBN.

Particles DO wind up in your oil which cause wear, this is why you need a spectrum analysis of used oil, or at least a filter that picks up "all" of the wear sized particles (say 5 micron absolute as a minimum).

Water DOES get in to oil which causes acid formation in your oil which corrodes parts, breaks off bits which contaminate your oil and wear your remaining parts. This is why you need to verify that there is no water in extended drain oil. Emulsifiers hide water in oil up to around 15% to the human eye / feel test. Labs can detect down to 0.1%.

If you can see contaminates on a full flow filter you should start planning for a motor / overhaul.

If your full flow oil filter is plugged, your motor probably is already knocking.

Fuel DOES get in to oil, it reduces lubricating properties, and tends to break down the lubrication abilities of the oil. Tight clearances, appropriate mixtures, and proper thermostat temps keep this way down but it is worth checking. diesel in oil isn't noticeable until 20% and wear starts becoming noticeable around 5%. Labs check for fuel dilution.

Smallest particle you can hope to feel is around 50 micron, any particle causes wear, the smaller the less, but oil loaded with 50 micron particles is like a slow smooth grinder.

VW PD engines are known for being picky about oil and are poor engines to do extended drain intervals, expect early cam failure (worn down lobes) along with injector issues.

I've been reading comments in this thread, and have decided to unsubscribe, good luck to all and I truly do wish you a great engine life span.

For WAY better info than I can provide, send in an oil sample to a lab, and visit bobistheoilguy.com

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Artan

Can somebody (oil or engine expert) help answer why my engine didnt suffer a single problem since i drove double over the limit what was recommended by the manufacturers.

Engines don't tend to break down right away due to oil not being changed.
They have a high resilience to wear and abuse.
But they do wear.

35.000 km is not very high if you do a lot of long distance driving, and you've started with a good quality oil - though not the kind of longlife oil VW used before.

Rest assured, the oil is breaking down, the TBN is coming down, and ultimately, it'll wear down the engine.

[gone-ot]

...an analogy: few people *die* of an illness immediately, but rather they *die* later because of an accumulation of complications arising from that illness.

...samething happens to engines and their lubricating oil.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Artan

Looking at my car since 35.000 km (22.000 miles) no oil change, oil is thin same as new one, oil filter has been changed at 30.000 km (the oil filter was not damaged nor clogged but i changed it), the car is running perfectly, somehow i dont believe i really dont trust these sayings that the oil brakes down and we need to change it as often as they say.

Anyway I will test my car and even if it brakes down i dont care i want to see for how long it will go without oil change. I strongly believe that the engine will run up to a milion miles with the same oil, full synthetic.

My belive is that the engine gets destroyed and wears out only if driven reclessly, inapropriate oil in the engine (worse than driving reclessly), low quality oil (mineral or half synthetic), if coolants leaks in the oil, bad air filter (clogged) needs to be cleaned with air pressure gun every 1000 miles (i do it often than that)(especially diesel engines need more air than gasoline engines)), and other things that will go out of normal operation like no coolant or bad fan so the engines overheats.

Well, dude, we've tried and tried to convince you to no avail. I hope your engine lasts forever, but I'm sure that it won't.

For me, the price of an oil and filter change every 10,000 miles pales in comparison to the cost of a new engine. So I'll continue to change my oil.

[Artan]

Lets dont give up. I thank everybody for their efforts to explain oil issues.

I feel sorry that i made you angry but i am somehow convinced that oil lasts much longer without need of change.

I am trying it at my own risk and I will report always to what is happenning.

I would take a sample to the lab but we dont have one in Kosovo.